Mark Webber

I'm a little puzzled as to why Webber doesn't have a page in the teams and drivers section, as Webber is a pivotal figure in the story upfront. There are questions that need to be asked. Why can Vettel win, and Webber struggle to get on the podium fighting Ferraris and McLarens? Why is the man that was noted as a good qualifier unable to get near Vettel? Did the leg break in late 2008 do him serious performance damage? and What should Webber do in the near future?

Mark Webber. Over to you...
 
Anyone thing Webber should call it a day at the end of the year and go into TV work?

Can anyone really see it getting better for him next year?

Hi Rasputin,

I think performance is all relative.

I think if you look at it objectively you have to say that it *can* get better for these reasons:

1. There has been an element of "poor luck" for him this year - with KERS and the like and also with starts (which aren't 100% his fault according to some pundits (it's partly their clutch system but no one can say exactly what/why)) - just like there was an element of poor luck for Vettel last year...and an element of poor luck for Hamilton this year as well;

2. I think he has a chance *if* he continues adapting to Pirellis. Tyres have been a weakness this year in relation to Vettel vs 2010.

I don't think Webber's a poor driver and I think Horner, Newey and Mateschitz know this. They probably also know that Vettel is having an unusally superlative season that doesn't come along every year and, so, in relation to Vettel Vintage 2011, Webber's looking poor.

I personally feel they also re-signed Webber for 2012 because Webber's been there from almost Day 1 and he may know some things about Newey's work (secrets and the like) that they (Newey/Horner) don't want getting into the hands of Ferrari (or McLaren.)

I mean my theory that RBR don't want Webber taking secrets to other Grandees is probably not a bad theory. (And from Webber's perspective he re-signed because he'll likely have a fast car for 2012 and is liked by the Neweys and the Mateschitzs).

I think his hunger to win Grand Prix races is still there and that's an important feeling to have.

Makes sense?

:)
 
....

I think performance is all relative.

Great minds think alike (Einstein and myself:))

....
I personally feel they also re-signed Webber for 2012 because Webber's been there from almost Day 1 and he may know some things about Newey's work (secrets and the like) that they (Newey/Horner) don't want getting into the hands of Ferrari (or McLaren.)

Is Webber really an engineer? At best I would have thought that he might have some idea of a concept but I doubt that he would have insufficient knowledge of the application of the principle. He certainly does not seem to have had the necessary training in aerodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Webber

Makes sense?

:)

I've heard worse.
 
I still think he's got a lot to offer an F1 team, but that team might not be Red Bull Racing. The two drivers' trajectories are going in completely opposite directions, and I don't see that Mark has the reserves of energy and strength required to close that gap.
 
I still think he's got a lot to offer an F1 team, but that team might not be Red Bull Racing. The two drivers' trajectories are going in completely opposite directions, and I don't see that Mark has the reserves of energy and strength required to close that gap.

I "like" your post.

I agree about him having a lot to offer still...and I also agree that he's unlikely to be able to close that "gap" to Vettel.

Vettel, however, could be an All Time Great in the making. Possibly Top 10 in the making. If that's the case (and we'll only know years from now), then there's no shame in Webber not being able to close that gap.

I'm rating Webber ahead of Massa and can see more than that reason why Ferrari might want him. Trouble is that Santander is big in Brazil and Fiat sell a lot of cars in Felipe's home country.
 
Further to this...:

1. There has been an element of "poor luck" for him this year - with KERS and the like and also with starts (which aren't 100% his fault according to some pundits (it's partly their clutch system but no one can say exactly what/why))

...here is Mark explaining his start issues in his latest BBC column...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/15100582.stm

"The rules make it pretty challenging for engineers to get the starts right...

There is a lot of work for the drivers to do as well. I cannot give too much away but there are a number of procedures to go through before we get going.

When the lights go out, we quickly release one clutch paddle on the steering wheel and feed in a second gradually - that's the one the driver uses to modulate the grip of the rear wheels..."
 
The problem I have with Webber is the same problem I have with a few other drivers in the past. Every season we keep hearing how they're only having a bad season due to some bad luck or how the race could have been theres if they hadn't had some bad luck etc etc

When it happens so so frequently - especially car breakages - it really makes me start to wonder if its not something to do with the driver.

I ended up feeling the same about Alesi too and others I won't name in case I start a heated debate on thats off topic. When one car keeps breaking and the other seems to go on fine you have to start to wonder.
 
I think It's safe to say Mark has had a pretty poor season, what ever the reason, but it's unlikely to be the car as is team mate is about to become World Champion.
 
...is the same problem I have with a few other drivers in the past. Every season we keep hearing how they're only having a bad season due to some bad luck ...
When it happens so so frequently - especially car breakages - it really makes me start to wonder if its not something to do with the driver.

When one car keeps breaking and the other seems to go on fine you have to start to wonder.

So, you felt the same way about Vettel in 2010, then?

After all he had all of the RB6-Renault's mechanical issues whilst Webber had none! Vettel lost 66 points because of car/engine breakages whilst Webber lost 0 points from car/engine breakages. Vettel lost 3 wins because of them; Webber 0.

So was Seb a dog poor driver who couldn't keep his chassis and engine together last year whilst Mark was a fabulous one?

:snacks:
 
It is pretty clear that Webber's good and poor seasons against Seb have had the same result:

f-one.jpg
 
I found the article quite interesting. Webber says that his poor start at Spa was not down to himself, but the start at Singapore was his fault. I wonder how many other drivers would put something like that in print.

Edit: corrected for Spa rather than Monza
 
I wonder how many other drivers would put something like that in print.

I suppose that if he's going to write a column and bring up that subject, then he can't be dishonest about it because if he writes something that's incorrect (blaming the car as opposed to himself, as an example) then the team will tell the world's media that Webber's, effectively, lying.

So, if he's to write columns and discuss things like that, he can't afford to blame the car when he's at fault. The team will know in virtually every case what or who was at fault and the percentages therein.

Either you keep quiet about everything and say absolutely nothing at all ... OR ... you take the blame when you're the one at fault. No point in saying the Singapore start was down to the car because then RBR will make a mockery out of him, if not to the rest of the world, then internally for sure.
 
He could just have said that he had a poor start, that could include anything.

He also said that his second overtake of Alonso was not due to Alonso napping but rather that Alonso was blocked by the Toro Rosso. I wonder if this will alter anyone's opinion in the overtake of the race vote?
 
So, you felt the same way about Vettel in 2010, then?

I said after a while Ray. Vettel had one season like it. Lets be fair the phrase "how unlucky is Mark Webber!?" has been unttered by all and sundry throughout his career. Which is why I compared him to Alesi.

One year is unlucky - most of your career and it starts to make me wonder
 
I said after a while Ray. Vettel had one season like it. Lets be fair the phrase "how unlucky is Mark Webber!?" has been unttered by all and sundry throughout his career.

OK, Gocha! :)

I understand now.

Yes, it makes sense now. Mark was regarded as a potential multiple Grand Prix winner early in his career and fulfilled his promise. I don't know if he was being pegged as a World Champion.

It's ironic that he gets a winning car at the same time Vettel becomes his teammate. We won't know it until years and even a decade or two from now but Vettel could end up being one of the All Time Greats in the same league as Prost, Fangio, Clark, Stewart...possibly Senna. If that's the case, Webber won't look too bad.

I think what Mark needs to do is win at least 1 of the remaining 5 races.

It'll be a tough job given that he's got Vettel, Hamilton, Button and possibly even Alonso competing for those 5 wins.

That's incredibly tough competition when you look at it historically. That doesn't even include Schumacher-Rosberg, two guys who have no hope of winning.

Suzuka should be fun! I've been playing it on F1 2010 on PS3 today...and it's tough but fun. Can't wait! :)

"Good Luck" to Mark in Japan! ;)
 
Whether Yahoo Singapore took some liberties with their quotes is almost immaterial to the underlying point that Webber was trying to get across in that article. He's clearly setting up his 2012 campaign as one of the "supporting role", which is essentially a built in excuse for not being able to challenge his teammate.

I can't wait till we can benchmark Vettel with somebody else.
 
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