Mark Webber

I'm a little puzzled as to why Webber doesn't have a page in the teams and drivers section, as Webber is a pivotal figure in the story upfront. There are questions that need to be asked. Why can Vettel win, and Webber struggle to get on the podium fighting Ferraris and McLarens? Why is the man that was noted as a good qualifier unable to get near Vettel? Did the leg break in late 2008 do him serious performance damage? and What should Webber do in the near future?

Mark Webber. Over to you...
 
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There have been some 'out there' suggestions in other threads that Webber hasn't gotten the same support from Red Bull that Vettel has gotten or that Webber's 'getting Vettel's leftovers at Red Bull'.

Well, I totally disagree.

Webber has had 3 Poles from the previous 8 meetings...and he could have had a 4th Pole at Spa but got trumped at the final by both Hamilton and Vettel. So, that's hardly the stuff of being treated like a 'Number 2'.

Now some will say look at Monza....Only 5th on the Grid.

Well, Webber made the call to do only 1 run in Q3 while everyone else (save Senna of course) decided to do 2 runs mainly on the Softs (with Rosberg being the exception on the Mediums).

So, no one can blame RBR for that. To confirm, this is what Mark said:

"I could've done a better job in preparing what type of run plan we were going to do for Q3...I was too much in doubt whether to do one run or two runs. In the end two runs was the thing to do...So in the end all the things we could've done, driver heavily influenced, we didn't do the best planning."

What Mark does get out of this is an extra set of Softs. Hopefully that will be of some help but there have been some strong suggestions that tyre degredation isn't as critical at Monza.

Rosberg saved Softs and will start on Mediums...so that will be most interesting to watch.

One final thing. Webber seems to have opted to run a longer gear ratio than Vettel which might help him with terminal speed and over-taking (in relation to Vettel) in DRS zones.

Vettel, who went the other way on ratios, was slowest of all through the Monza speed trap before the first corner with his 327.7 km/h figure comparing to Webber's 336.1 km/h.
 
Ray. Why are you always trying to start a war? Leave it out! I'm not even going to respond to your antagonistic personal attack. In fact, beyond the first sentence, I'm not even going to read it. You need to keep your ego in check.

"cheers"
 
KekeTheKing said:
Pretty poor weekend for Mark. I can't believe he got to the Parabolica without realizing a piece of his wing was wedged under the car.
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Have to say I was a little surprised that he was going so fast without a nose cone - and I hadn't realised he had anything stuck under his car.

Racers, eh? :o
 
KekeTheKing said:
Pretty poor weekend for Mark.
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One would think he'd be more "relaxed" given the fact that Mateschitz has extended his invitation to drive the car again in 2012.

I feel slightly sorry for Massa... though I doubt if Felipe would have been able to finish better than the 5th Schuey got.

I'm hopeful that CTA members will stop making suggestions that Webber's not been getting 'support'. His choices in qually - and thus his grid position - have nothing to do with RBR 'favouring' Vettel. And if you qualify 'out-of-position', then there's always a risk of being caught out in a tangle.

0-8 in the Wins Column now.

Oh dear.

:no:

Edit -

Mark is basically dismantling himself. He doesn't need Vettel to do that to him.
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
One would think he'd be more "relaxed" given the fact that Mateschitz has extended his invitation to drive the car again in 2012.

I feel slightly sorry for Massa... though I doubt if Felipe would have been able to finish better than the 5th Schuey got.

I'm hopeful that CTA members will stop making suggestions that Webber's not been getting 'support'. His choices in qually - and thus his grid position - have nothing to do with RBR 'favouring' Vettel. And if you qualify 'out-of-position', then there's always a risk of being caught out in a tangle.

0-8 in the Wins Column now.

Oh dear.

:no:

Edit -

Mark is basically dismantling himself. He doesn't need Vettel to do that to him.
Click to expand

When you become the defacto no.2 in a team, very few drivers are able to perform at the best of thier ability. This is evidenced currently by Massa and Webber and has been evidence by many other pairings throughout the history of formula one. Talent is one thing, but anyone with any knowledge of sport will tell you that phsychology plays a huge part in any athlete's game. For somebody who seems to know more about formula one than anybody else in the world it seems strange that you would deny this is the case. Or perhaps you think we are all too daft to make such realisations and that if you say something with enough vigour that you will not only convince yourself, but everyone else too. I mean, why wouldn't we agree?

Mark and the rest of the world came to an obvious realisation that he was no.2 at Red Bull last year. At the time, on the old 606, you made many statements around this very topic. Your stance then was very different. I suspect, because it suited your campaign at the time.

Webber is finished. Vettel is a better driver and has got the better of him. The gulf between them is not, however, a matter measurable only by differential of raw talent as you seem to suggest. We have to consider where he feels he is within the team and where his head is at. You ask Webber if be feels he is equal in the team and if he feels he gets the same equal treatment. If there is no camera around we both know what the answer is.

You have good game, Ray, but I can spot your dummies before you've even made the play.
 
If Webber feels he doesn't get the same equipment then why did he re-sign for them for 2012?

I keep pointing to his 3 poles in the previous 8 races and no one can give me an answer that tells me he isn't the undoing of his own self.

How many times has he led away from Pole?
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
If Webber feels he doesn't get the same equipment then why did he re-sign for them for 2012?

I keep pointing to his 3 poles in the previous 8 races and no one can give me an answer that tells me he isn't the undoing of his own self.

How many times has he led away from Pole?
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I'd question some of the pitstop strategies Red Bull have used like in Spain when Vettel came in first and effectively jumped Webber and then on the next pitstop Webber was left stuck behind Alonso for the whole race
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
If Webber feels he doesn't get the same equipment then why did he re-sign for them for 2012?

I keep pointing to his 3 poles in the previous 8 races and no one can give me an answer that tells me he isn't the undoing of his own self.

How many times has he led away from Pole?
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Because Red Bull have the best car. If Webber can't beat Vettel at Red Bull then he can't beat Vettel anywhere else. At least at Red Bull, even as no.2 driver, he still has a chance to beat everyone else.

I'm not sure what your point is about the pole positions and how my response to you earlier did not answer that.

Everything need not be a challenge to disprove the superior logic of the great RayInTorontoCanada.

"cheers"
 
However looked at the race today Webber,s move on Massa sums him up "All racing aggression and no brains"

He never learns when to give up a position when he has no hope of getting it back or pulling it off cleanly

Thats why he will never be world champion...at this rate he will never win another race even if he has the best car
 
Bill Boddy said:
But those are qualities that many people on this forum and elsewhere think are admirable.
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-------------------------------

My point is when he has no hope of getting it back or pulling it off cleanly...in other words usually ending up in an accident
So really there is nothing to admire when he tries a move in which his chances of success are zero or it will mean tagging the other car
 
I think Webber gets equal treatment, he gets to pick his own strategies has the same car. I think he's simply not fast enough.

His stats for this season says it all, the car he's driving has won 8 grand prix's, yet Webber has only lead 14 laps and had 2 second places.

You could say that he was with Vettel last year, beg to differ, Vettel was in a league of his own at the start of the season, and in the second half of the season, Webber only got close enough because of his mind games and Vettel's bad luck reliability wise.
 
Il_leone said:
However looked at the race today Webber,s move on Massa sums him up "All racing aggression and no brains"

He never learns when to give up a position when he has no hope of getting it back or pulling it off cleanly

Thats why he will never be world champion...at this rate he will never win another race even if he has the best car
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THis forum is about Webber and this is my assessment of Webber
 
Bill Boddy said:
What makes you think that this was a reference to Webber?
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I think it's obvious that that was a dig at Lewis fans. I don't think any of them would find it commendable for a driver to do something quite so dumb. Even thier favourite driver. Anyway, there is another thread for Lewis if that's something you want to discuss.

I apologise if my assumption is wrong.
 
Bill Boddy said:
Ayrton Senna amongst others.
Interesting that you should jump to the conclusion that it was Hamilton.
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Then my apology stands. I just assumed you were talking about a current driver. Of course, if I had thought about it harder I would have realised you meant Senna. Right, off to bed before I make any more silly incorrect assumptions. ;)

Although, I don't think any Senna fans would find it commendable that he would do something so dumb.
 

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