Vettel 256, Alonso 256, Webber 256

ATL11

Podium Finisher
In all the excitement of the maths, thought I'd open another post for the Conspiracy Therories we will cover in the lead up to Abu Dhabi:

An interesting concept, is the following:

Vettel winning in Abu - 256 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x3, 4th x3)
Webber 2nd - 256 (4 wins, 2nd x5, 3rd x2, 4th x0)
Alonso 3rd - 261 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x4, 4th x2) - Vettel moves aside Webber 264 (5 wins, 2nd x4, 3rd x2, 4th x0), Vettel 248 (4 wins, 2nd x3, 3rd x3, 4th x3)
Alonso 4th - 258 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x3, 4th x3) - Vettel moves aside Webber 264 (5 wins, 2nd x4, 3rd x2, 4th x0), Vettel 248 (4 wins, 2nd x3, 3rd x3, 4th x3)
Alonso 5th - 256 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x3, 4th x2)

So if your still following, Vettel leading in Abu & Webber 2nd (ala Brazil), if Alonso is 3rd or 4th then Vettel should move aside to allow Webber to win the Drivers Championship.

Were the fun really starts, is if Vettel is leading, Webber is 2nd and Alonso is 5th, that would mean, the Drivers championship would finish as follows and I just can't see Vettel moving over:

Vettel 256 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x3, 4th x3 - Last 4th in Italy)
Alonso 256 (5 wins, 2nd x2, 3rd x3, 4th x2)
Webber 256 (4 wins, 2nd x5, 3rd x2, 4th x0)

Though I can see Webber going for it......and taking both out.........

OR

Another interesting concept, Vettel is leading, Webber is 2nd, and Alonso is 3rd, a few laps to go, Vettel moves over for RBR team, then Alonso's Ferrari engine goes BANG......would Vettel hold station?
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
ATL11 said:
Another interesting concept, Vettel is leading, Webber is 2nd, and Alonso is 3rd, a few laps to go, Vettel moves over for RBR team, then Alonso's Ferrari engine goes BANG......would Vettel hold station?
A very interesting one, but for that reason I wouldn't expect Vettel to move aside until the last lap.
 

ZakspeedYakspeed

NeverUnderestimateThePredictabilityOfStupidity
Premium Contributor
The safety car rules need to be changed for next season. What a complete farce. Lapped cars need to be waved through so that the field forms up in racing alignment.

The best thing that SV can do next weekend is plough through FA's sidepod as they turn into the first corner at AD... :crazy:

Well done to FA winning the WDC, he never gave up and showed that he was the best driver of the season (comfortably shading LH imho)...
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
ZakspeedYakspeed said:
Well done to FA winning the WDC, he never gave up and showed that he was the best driver of the season (comfortably shading LH imho)...
The speed of the Red Bulls since Monza, and that there are 2 of them against 1 Ferrari, means that this is no formality. Waking up this morning, Mark will realise he has, barring unforeseen incidents, the best chance of the three of becoming the WDC this year.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Muddytalker said:
Waking up this morning, Mark will realise he has, barring unforeseen incidents, the best chance of the three of becoming the WDC this year.
Does he though? He needs to win, with Alonso coming 3rd or worse, while Fernando just needs to finish second regardless of what anyone else does.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
If you assume that the RBs are going to be 1 & 2 (and there's no evidence on current form/speed to think that's not going to be the case), and that Alonso will be next one along (again, form and speed back this up), then it's clear that Vettel can't be champion, even if he wins the race. Thus, and he has already hinted that he will, he allows Webber to pass on the last lap; This plays perfectly into Webber's hand, as he will then have Vettel as his wingman for the last few miles of 2010, keeping Alonso at bay.
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
I agree with Muddytalker on this one. In a weird sense Webber has an advantage here. He's playing catch-up which is, I imagine, easier to deal with. He knows he has a team-mate that will move over if needed, and will probably have the better car.

And if the McLarens turn up for once, who knows? They could easily jam themselves between RBR and Alonso at turn 3.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I've split the posts off relating to the final race/points, etc. and merged them with this one.
 

ZakspeedYakspeed

NeverUnderestimateThePredictabilityOfStupidity
Premium Contributor
I don't know...I am still not convinced that SV will wave MW through...

Though it would be extremely funny if he did to cut to the RBR pit wall and see Horner signing a huge cardboard chq to Jean Todt @ FIA for $100,000...
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
ZakspeedYakspeed said:
I don't know...I am still not convinced that SV will wave MW through...

Though it would be extremely funny if he did to cut to the RBR pit wall and see Horner signing a huge cardboard chq to Jean Todt @ FIA for $100,000...
They are being very careful about what is said in public though - "We would not give an order, as they are banned, but if Seb wants to do something that would help the team, then that's up to him" = no fine from the FIA.

What you won't hear or read about is the discussion in the motorhome before the race that goes over all the permutations, and "what ifs", and where promises are made to Seb to "play the game today, and we'll reward you tomorrow".
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
I think most people would agree that SV will be a WDC at some point, if not next year (barring Ferrari/McLaren making massive steps forward). This is probably MW's best chance to clinch it, so I could foresee a conversation along the lines of:
"If you're winning and Mark and Fernando are in line astern behind you, move over and let him take the WDC, you'll get your chance next year."

Thing is, if Alonso crashes out next weekend and Vettel wins, Horner will have been vindicated for not having the drivers swap places at Brazil (although I don't believe Vettel is yet deserving of a WDC, he makes too many unforced errors).
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
Chad Stewarthill said:
ATL11 said:
Another interesting concept, Vettel is leading, Webber is 2nd, and Alonso is 3rd, a few laps to go, Vettel moves over for RBR team, then Alonso's Ferrari engine goes BANG......would Vettel hold station?
A very interesting one, but for that reason I wouldn't expect Vettel to move aside until the last lap.
And what if he does and Alonso would blow his engine in the last lap, finishing 5th? Then Vettel would have given the WC to Webber. ;)
fat_jez said:
I think most people would agree that SV will be a WDC at some point, if not next year (barring Ferrari/McLaren making massive steps forward). This is probably MW's best chance to clinch it, so I could foresee a conversation along the lines of:
"If you're winning and Mark and Fernando are in line astern behind you, move over and let him take the WDC, you'll get your chance next year."

Thing is, if Alonso crashes out next weekend and Vettel wins, Horner will have been vindicated for not having the drivers swap places at Brazil (although I don't believe Vettel is yet deserving of a WDC, he makes too many unforced errors).
Hm. I thought the point of the championship was getting the most points. So if Alonso crashes next week and Vettel wins, how come he won't be a worthy champion and it would be better that Webber had become champion because of Vettel moving over for him at Brazil?
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Wombcat said:
Hm. I thought the point of the championship was getting the most points. So if Alonso crashes next week and Vettel wins, how come he won't be a worthy champion and it would be better that Webber had become champion because of Vettel moving over for him at Brazil?
I didn't say he wouldn't be a worthy champion for not moving over at Brazil, but because he's made too many mistakes. Mistakes the team have not punished him for, like taking out his team mate or Jenson Button.
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
fat_jez said:
Wombcat said:
Hm. I thought the point of the championship was getting the most points. So if Alonso crashes next week and Vettel wins, how come he won't be a worthy champion and it would be better that Webber had become champion because of Vettel moving over for him at Brazil?
I didn't say he wouldn't be a worthy champion for not moving over at Brazil, but because he's made too many mistakes. Mistakes the team have not punished him for, like taking out his team mate or Jenson Button.
It's not that Webber didn't make any mistakes. He made a few silly mistakes as well.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Wombcat said:
It's not that Webber didn't make any mistakes. He made a few silly mistakes as well.
Rule number one is don't take out your team mate. Vettel did so and was not chastised by the team. Until he stops making errors of this type, he's not a worthy champion. There's a good reason that it's a standing joke about him turning into other drivers on this forum, a reputation no other driver has here.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
fat_jez said:
Wombcat said:
It's not that Webber didn't make any mistakes. He made a few silly mistakes as well.
Rule number one is don't take out your team mate. Vettel did so and was not chastised by the team. Until he stops making errors of this type, he's not a worthy champion. There's a good reason that it's a standing joke about him turning into other drivers on this forum, a reputation no other driver has here.
Does Yuji Ide not count? Ralf Schumacher? Andrea de Crasharis?
 

Wombcat

Podium Finisher
fat_jez said:
Wombcat said:
It's not that Webber didn't make any mistakes. He made a few silly mistakes as well.
Rule number one is don't take out your team mate. Vettel did so and was not chastised by the team. Until he stops making errors of this type, he's not a worthy champion. There's a good reason that it's a standing joke about him turning into other drivers on this forum, a reputation no other driver has here.
Someone to be a worthy champion is an opinion. Fact is though that the championship is decided by getting the most points, and in my opinion that person by default is a deserving champion. Whether I like him to be champion or not is a different matter. But that is in the eye of the beholder. If you're a fan of Vettel, you will see him as a worthy champion. If you're not, you'll probably not see him that way.

Logical conclusion of your point of view on Vettel is that Prost wasn't a worthy champion in 1989. After all he turned his car into Senna, his teammate. In 1988 Senna almost pushed Prost in the wall at Estoril: so I guess he's not a worthy champion either?

On turning on teammates: I also remember a race in the 90s where two Minardis were taking each other out in one of the last laps while they were both in the points. :crazy:
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Wombcat said:
Fact is though that the championship is decided by getting the most points, and in my opinion that person by default is a deserving champion.
Hear Hear! :thumbsup:
And fat_jez is wrong to say that Vettel 'took out his teammate'. In turning into Webber at Turkey he actually took himself out; Webber went on to get a podium finish. So if Seb were to become WDC this year it would be in spite of losing himself that win, as he would have passed Mark at some point in that race if they hadn't clashed. In my view therefore, even though I have been critical of him at times this season, he would be a very deserving champ.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Chad Stewarthill said:
And fat_jez is wrong to say that Vettel 'took out his teammate'. In turning into Webber at Turkey he actually took himself out; Webber went on to get a podium finish. So if Seb were to become WDC this year it would be in spite of losing himself that win, as he would have passed Mark at some point in that race if they hadn't clashed. In my view therefore, even though I have been critical of him at times this season, he would be a very deserving champ.
Whether or not he took himself out is moot, he still crashed into his team mate. He also crashed into Button and took him out of a race. If Vettel were in one of the lesser teams, we'd probably all be saying he's a liability and should lose his superlicense (and that's before we mention his incidents with the safety car where he let it get too far ahead and earned a drive through penalty).

And that is why I don't think he is yet a worthy champion. I think he needs a couple of years of learning proper race craft. I never thought I'd find myself saying this, but have a read of this James Allen article to see what I mean.
 
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