Current Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Who says its 5 seasons? I am talking about last season and the unfairness of the stewards towards him, leading to his little joke which then lead to his sudden clamming up and obvious agitation and constant apologies

If you remember there was serious talk about banning him for a few races

Come on! For quoting Ali G?

But I suspect you are unable to change your opinion about last year or to supply any alternative explanation to his drop in form or agitation

 

[teabagyokel]

If he cannot cope with being asked by his employer to not embarrass them in public, then he does not deserve to be in Formula One.

I do not believe that he has been affected at all by his team asking him to be more selective in what he says to journalists.

Really, guys, you have to question how you can hold the view that he did little wrong last season, whilst simultaneously seeking to excuse him for poor form by any means necessary.

 

[racecub]

He was shielded by his father and Ron Dennis in the first few years.
And as Cook says, he's had rather more to deal with then other drivers.
Would Senna or Shumacher have been affected by adverse comments and unfair treatment,No. Senna had a certain amount of what Lewis receives in his time.But Lewis' personality is such that it does affect him. I hope he returns to the Lewis that fights it.This is where I think his team should be more supportive.They should fight his corner not put him in the corner!

 

[teabagyokel]

But I suspect you are unable to change your opinion about last year or to supply any alternative explanation to his drop in form or agitation

He failed to cope with the demands of the Pirelli tyres at some circuits and, at others, made stupid on-track mistakes. His agitation came from his drop in form due to the former. Thats my explanation.

Who says its 5 seasons? I am talking about last season and the unfairness of the stewards towards him, leading to his little joke which then lead to his sudden clamming up and obvious agitation and constant apologies

If you remember there was serious talk about banning him for a few races

Come on! For quoting Ali G?

HE WASN'T BANNED!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Really, guys, you have to question how you can hold the view that he did little wrong last season, whilst simultaneously seeking to excuse him for poor form by any means necessary.

they say form is temporary and class permanent, I believe he is class of the field

Therefore IMHO there must be explanations for his drop in form for a while last year, these explanations will include things he had control over however it would be normal to assume he didn't have control over other causes

Bearing this in mind it makes sense that when discussing his season last year all these points will be brought up

 

[racecub]

He failed to cope with the demands of the Pirelli tyres at some circuits and, at others, made stupid on-track mistakes. His agitation came from his drop in form due to the former. Thats my explanation.



HE WASN'T BANNED!

Threatened with it???

 

[The Pits]

Who says its 5 seasons? I am talking about last season and the unfairness of the stewards towards him, leading to his little joke which then lead to his sudden clamming up and obvious agitation and constant apologies

And please correct me if I am wrong but was 2011 not Lewis's fifth season? No?

If you remember there was serious talk about banning him for a few races
Come on! For quoting Ali G?

There was talk of Felipe Massa being sacked recently, with no foundation. There was talk about a special stewards meeting to discuss Lewis driving which no one seemed to know anything about when it was mentioned.

But I suspect you are unable to change your opinion about last year or to supply any alternative explanation to his drop in form or agitation

Is this your opinion? that sounds a little antagonistic (surely not) and more than a little patronising. If you read back through the 1964 posts on this thread, I have put forward several opinions as to what the issue could be, but I suspect that they will fall short of the strict conditions you place on others peoples opinions, and you seem to be unable to see others opinions as anything other than wrong if they do not agree with yours.

In the past (since 2007 in formula 1, and before that) lewis has beaten every team mate that he has had. He had the support of Ron Dennis and his father. I believe that issues have appeared before, and have been les obvious for one simple reason, He was winning, and he knew that he would prevail. I would draw a parallel with the Wimbledon final between Michael Stich and Boris Beccker. Boris was far more agitated and out of sorts, playing well below his usual level. The reason he gave afterwards, was that he could not see a way past Stich. Never before had he lacked this belief. In 2007, there was no significant expectations, he was able to perform freely, and it was Alonso who reacted. 2008 Heikki was little competition, likewise 2009. In 2010it seemed to me like he assumed that this would continue. He was able to assert himself, yes, but thinking back to Australia,m he was not happy, likewise Monza. I do not think he was penalised at either race, yet he was clearly not his usual self.

2011 leads to more of the same. The big thing for me is that Jenson did not seem to stay down when he was knocked down, and seemed ot get stronger. Integrating with the team etc. The issues started while Lewis was still ahead, but I think that knowing you can beat someone is a very good way to maintain focus, losing that belief leads to frustrations and mistakes.

I am not saying that the issues with the stewards are all justified, nor am I saying that his outburst was not understandable, what I am saying is that if he believed that he would still prevail, then he would have been in a better place, and better able to cope.

Just my opinion.

 

[racecub]

I dont think there's any arguement about how long Lewis has been in F1.
Getting sacked is not the same as getting banned. very different animal!

 

[teabagyokel]

Getting sacked is not the same as getting banned. very different animal!

What a display of convenient point missing! The point is you can't say someone was hard done to when they were not punished.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

And please correct me if I am wrong but was 2011 not Lewis's fifth season? No?

I would draw a parallel with the Wimbledon final between Michael Stich and Boris Beccker. Boris was far more agitated and out of sorts, playing well below his usual level. The reason he gave afterwards, was that he could not see a way past Stich. Never before had he lacked this belief. In 2007, there was no significant expectations, he was able to perform freely, and it was Alonso who reacted. 2008 Heikki was little competition, likewise 2009. In 2010it seemed to me like he assumed that this would continue. He was able to assert himself, yes, but thinking back to Australia,m he was not happy, likewise Monza. I do not think he was penalised at either race, yet he was clearly not his usual self.

2011 leads to more of the same. The big thing for me is that Jenson did not seem to stay down when he was knocked down, and seemed ot get stronger. Integrating with the team etc. The issues started while Lewis was still ahead, but I think that knowing you can beat someone is a very good way to maintain focus, losing that belief leads to frustrations and mistakes.

So in your opinion, Lewis' loss of form was due to suddenly thinking he couldn't beat Button ( but in 2007, Alonso didn't cause the same panic)



(edit: I find it funny as Lewis has said himself that he was not affected by Button, but let's assume he is lying shall we )

The point is you can't say someone was hard done to when they were not punished.

They were not hard done by, but the time during which the jury was out will have also had some bearing

In a court case, time spent in remand or if on bail loss of reputation or business is normally taken into consideration isn't it if an innocent man is wrongly accused and the courts try to redress the situation with compensation.

Yes I know that this analogy is tenuous but we cannot say that only a condemned man suffers, an accused one does also

So Lewis' form was probably affected somewhat by the talk of multi race bans for making a joke

 

[racecub]

What a display of convenient point missing! The point is you can't say someone was hard done to when they were not punished.

Point missing? Nope not I sir. I didnt say Lewis was hard done by, I said IF he was threatened by being banned it would have affected him and posibly caused his change in attitude from the fighting Lewis to the submissive Lewis. I then said Banning is different to sacking, worse.Drivers get sacked/loose their drive all the time, they dont get banned ...or even threatened with it all the time.

 

[The Pits]

As I stated, in 2007 there was little expectation on him as a first year rookie, and Alonso was the one who suffered. Now, the tables are turned. Lewis was the one who thought it should all have gone his way, after 2 seasons with Heikki, when it did not, he got frustrated, and it affected him. This is all stated in my opinion above, but that you have chosen to respond in the chilish disrespectful manner that you have simply reflects on you, rather than my opinion.

Besides, who said it was sudden?

We see it all the time in many sports. In football, there is usually a "bogey team"

Is it really so hard to believe?

 

[teabagyokel]

OK, CF6 and racecub, who was "talking" about banning him at Monaco? - with evidence please.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Calm down guys.

I can find you fifty articles about potential banning of Hamilton after Monaco. That would be a waste of my time, though.

Here is one: http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/06/09/todt-i-wanted-to-ban-hamilton-for-six-races/

Now, if you want more, do what I did and google "ban Monaco Hamilton".

You will find a massive number of results.


I think you, Racecub and TBY, both have valid points but that you are both exaggerating your points to the extent where neither of you can defend them. If you are realistic with yourselves as well as those you are in discussuion with, you might even find yourself coming to some sort of agreement.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The short snswer is Jean Todt, head of the FIA
http://www.totalf1.com/details/view/380479/Todt_Hamilton_could_have_faced_sixrace_ban/

I am not sure what constitutes evidence as the press can be a law onto themselves but short of interviewing Jean Todt himself the following links will have to suffice

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jean+todt+raceban+hamilton&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

You can be sure that this was made known to McLaren and to Lewis leading to Haniltons grovelling letter of apology, after which he still had to wait for the verdict

 

[Cookinflatsix]

As I stated, in 2007 there was little expectation on him as a first year rookie, and Alonso was the one who suffered. Now, the tables are turned. Lewis was the one who thought it should all have gone his way, after 2 seasons with Heikki, when it did not, he got frustrated, and it affected him. This is all stated in my opinion above, but that you have chosen to respond in the chilish disrespectful manner that you have simply reflects on you, rather than my opinion.

Besides, who said it was sudden?

We see it all the time in many sports. In football, there is usually a "bogey team"

Is it really so hard to believe?

Looking at the evidence, it's hard to believe and I am therefore unable to agree even slightly with your opinion that Lewis' agitation and drop in form are linked to Buttons performance

Firstly Lewis himself has said that this was not the case. I would rather assume he knows more than you do about what caused his slump in results. Even if we assume that you know better than he does then you will have to prove that he is lying or unaware of his own existence

Even if you did I would point to Webbers statement recently that Lewis just had some incidents and a few bad penalties but that's it. (there is a quote in a previous post)

Going back to today's initial topic of discussion, there is a lot of evidence that his demeanour changed after the Monaco outburst, this demeanour as pointed out by racecub involved constant apologising and almost a submissive approach which then coincided with other drivers closing the door more and taking liberties with impunity. Button for example painting the wall with him in Canada

I think this is the general direction of the opinion put forward by racecub that you have been unable to successfully challenge

No ones being childish or disrespecting your opinion, it's just not strong enough at present

 

[EvilWhippet]

I don't think any of those were worth a penalty. The Schumacher overtake was fair racing. Maldonado definitely turned in on Lewis. Massa and Lewis didn't give each other any quarter and were both to blame.

That interview was from the season review this evening, wasn't it? I loved Nick Heidfeld's comment about Kamui on the radio after losing his front wing. Shame we miss so much of this during the BBC coverage. Maybe Sky will give us more of these great snippets.

Heidfeld comment y'say? Is on youtube?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Heidfeld comment y'say? Is on youtube?

As soon as I mentioned Heidfeld I knew it was a matter of time before you liked the post. As soon as you liked the post I knew is was a matter of time before you asked about it. They are repeating the preview program on SkyF1 through the week. It was also on Sky 1 early this afternoon. They may be repeating it there too.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Sky1, I'll keep a look out.

As soon as I saw the sun in the sky today I knew I'd be liking a Heidfeld related post.

 

[F1ang-o]

Monaco last year...Lewis had been supporting his brother in the BCCC, Nic & Nicole attended Monaco GP. I expect Lewis as usual was on it...early in the race MS passes LH...Lewis does not turn in on him. Later Schumi leaves a space...Lewis gets his car into it & takes the place back...MS does not turn into him. LH has a clean pass. Later Massa & Maldanado both turned in early on LH.....
On reflection, it was agreed in both cases not to be LH fault...but at the time LH was vilified. This was the turning point last year. I remember after the race...some hot shot somebody...being interviewed...he said it was great to see overtaking at Monaco...he was cut off.

Several years ago, I stopped watching F1 because of BORING processions.

LH driving is being stifled by lesser mortals, that cannot see the wood for the trees. The quickness of the eye to brain to action, that some cannot accept. I am in awe of his driving.

It seems to me that he has to be bombarded with undeserved penalties & crap reporting.

I looked at my notes from the race where Kobi took him out...the commentary team blamed LH.
Lewis didn't even see Kobi coming back after he had overtaken him, Lewis was put out of the race, & later said ok... I was 100% to blame. ...............To me it said ..get off my case.
Next race...David Coulthard RBR, showed a video of the coming together of KK & LH....
C "I think Lewis at the time took full resposibility for that accident. I don't think that was fully his responsibility. Now with the advantage of slo..mo....look at Kobayashis left front wheel, He's starting to turn in.....it's almost like Kobi expects LH to disappear, now with the benefit of this slo..mo..that is Kobis fault, Lewis was just wrong place , wrong time."
LH was robbed of points & vilified in the press.....anyone would begin to crumble..he had not done anything wrong, he was racing.
If he had taken out drivers as Schumi did with Hill & Villnueve....or his team mate had crashed to allow him to winm or sat in the garage so his team mate couldn't put in a fast lap in Q3, then I could understand the crap being ladled out to him.
All he has done is race & bend over backwards to help Button.