Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

See what I did there?

 

[ecclestoned]

I must say, that video doesn't change my view on the incident one bit, it just confirms it.
But that's what makes the sport so fascinating; that others can watch the same thing and come to a completely different view.

I'm one of those with a different view, because though a picture paints a thousand words, there's often more to it than meets the eye .In this case that would be the context,the team-mate racing agreement and probably a coded team order(which didn't meet my ear,but would make sense to me).
The incident took place in lap 41,and SV was lapping quicker than MW since lap 27(out of the top of my head,could be wrong by a lap ).Meanwhile Vettel was being chased by both McLarens,who were setting one fastest lap after the other .
Just before the Red Bulls set in their Tango D'amore,those 4 cars where racing on a handkerchief,with a rough 1 second difference between car 1 and 4.
Vettel got himself out of that situation by pulling up over Webber by half a car ,and that's where Mark was supposed(quicker car gets the advantage) and probably was even told to lift his foot a notch and leave more room by going back to the racing line.Instead Mark stayed put full throttle,playing russian roulette and saying to himself :"once in Malaysia,never again"(read that in the text balloon coming out of his car).Vettel at that point should have budged and tried later,but I guess he felt too sure and knew he was backed by the pit wall(going by his screw loose gesture with his famous finger and the (first)comments by the top brass after the race).
Anyway, I don't mind some rumble in the jungle,and it at least gave us something to disagree to agree about,even one year later.

It's similar to Singapore 2010 for me, where I can't understand why more people don't share my view that Mark Webber, not Lewis Hamilton, caused the collision between them that ended Lewis' race (but on that one at least, I am a little biased).

Actually I'm the one that shares that view with you!
Mark really has this over my dead body mentality .He sometime makes me think of a poker player going "all in" knowing he doesn't have the best hand,and hoping the other will throw his cards on the table.
Still, if Webber can up his game again,his machinery permitting,and he can get back up to one of those first 2 slots on the grid,I expect we can look forward to some extra fireworks .We're so spoiled.

 

[Fenderman]

Yup, Chad. I liked it.

 

[MCLS]

If you look at around 10 seconds, Webber isn't exactly shoving Vettel onto the grass a la Schumacher but there ia enough space for one F1 car which Webber was entitled to hold.

 

[Bushi]

Webber left enough room to pass, but what about that corner that was coming up? In my eyes Webber wanted to take that next corner as tight as a duck's arse. That is his right to do so, but is that something you do with your team mate?
That's why i think it's not one drivers fault, they both showed no respect for each other.

 

[MCLS]

If you reverse the situation do you think Vettel would have given Webber miles of room to go down the inside? I doubt it

 

[Speshal]

This is turning into a who did what to whom at Turkey thread which was discussed in depth at the time - If I may steer it back on topic - Does anyone think the only logical move for Seb would be to Ferrari should a drive become available in the future?

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Does anyone think the only logical move for Seb would be to Ferrari should a drive become available in the future?

In a word... No, as long as Red Bull at least provide him with a car that can compete for the championship then he should stay, especially looking at how long ago Ferrari won a WDC back in '07 and then '04 but then again that system would work out worse for McLaren...

 

[MCLS]

Well I dont think Red Bull in a million years would allow Vettel to go to Ferrari and an Alonso/Vettel partnership would be a bit dodgy going by Alonso's track record.

 

[Speshal]

I was thinking longer term in the future as he has A Red Bull contract until 2014 at that point he will have been with RBR for 6 years.

 

[MCLS]

And probably be another 6 years after that.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

There's also the Newey factor to consider. How long is his contract and how long has he ever spent in one place? Maybe another season or two at RB before he gets bored of winning and then moves on for a new challenge somewhere else. Without Newey RB will not be as competitive and then could struggle to keep hold of their fast driver.

 

[MCLS]

Where Newey goes Vettel goes?

 

[ecclestoned]

If you reverse the situation do you think Vettel would have given Webber miles of room to go down the inside? I doubt it

I doubt that too.But he did leave Mark a lot of room in Hungary and we all know where that got him

 

[Il_leone]

If you are referring to Turkey..it was Vettel's fault

Do you think we would still be debating if the driver he ran into was Hamilton or Schumacher

Webber held his line , Vettel changed direction..what was ridiculous afterwards was that muppet of a team principal called Christian Horner ascribed the blame to Vettel on interview then a few days said it was Webber's fault when Dr Helmut Marko decided to stick his nose and offer his view

 

[Bushi]

Where Newey goes Vettel goes?

I think so. On BBC i believe it was, they said that Vettel wants to most victories in a Newey designed car.

 

[Il_leone]

I think the most victories in a NEwey car goes to Damon Hill 21 all in a Williams folllowed by Hakkinen 19 in a Mclaren

and I need an avatar !

 

[teabagyokel]

There's one here based on your username:

 

[Speshal]

If you reverse the situation do you think Vettel would have given Webber miles of room to go down the inside? I doubt it

I doubt that too.But he did leave Mark a lot of room in Hungary and we all know where that got him

Please see my above post concerning this matter, we've discussed this before, the record stand and the result stands as to who was in the wrong or the right. is always going to be subjective - If you continue to argue the same moot point - I'll close the thread.

As it stands from CTA members - via the poll - most don't think he's the finished article just yet - give him time and he may well live up to his "baby schumi" legend but then again, he may well be a quick driver in an unbeatable car.

 

[sobriety]

I think it was evidenced again in China that Hamilton and Button have a healthy respect when racing wheel to wheel

I'm not sure sure about that, it looks to me that Hamilton charges in gung-ho, and Button is quick enough to get out of the way. I reckon that if Webber was Hamiltons team mate there would have been at least a couple of coming togethers!