Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[ATL11]

Okay the Vettel thread as some interesting stats from the last 11 races for the German:

11 Races
8 Wins - Japan, Brazil, Abu Dhabi, Australia, Malaysia, Turkey, Europe & Monaco
2 Second place - Singapore & China
1 DNF - Korea when he had a BBQ (& was leading @ the time)
He's scored 236 points or an average of 21.4 per race in the last 11

This run has basically won him the Drivers Title in 2010 & if I'm not mistaken it'll not be long before a big lady starts singing for the title in 2011.

Okay we know Canada is RBR weakest tracks and should suit McLaren so we should see this trend end. But as Vettel seems to have one of those key Properties that Schuey had, in 'luck'........ I can just see Canada being a blip on RBR charge to 2011 glory........unless like Monaco when Vettel had more Jam that 'Hartleys', we see RBR win in Canada & it's 2004 all over again.

 

[Slyboogy]

It won't be Webber, Seb this year is like Schuey in 2000 to 2004, in 2012 it'll be some schmuck who's told what to do, (no disrespect to Rubens) so RBR can continue their domination. Be interesting to see who it is? Kobayashi?

Webber has said that he is keen to stay, I for one hope he doesn't, and I don't think Red Bull are favouring Vettel as you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I am wrong) as for Vettel dominating? Maybe in 2012 due to the rules being similar...however 2013 is a different matter.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

This guy is special, don 't get me wrong. But he still needs to prove he can win races by overtaking cars on the track and not through pit-stops. At this moment in time thats what seperates him from been good to brilliant. Also would love to see another top driver in the RB garage to give him a really good test.

 

[ATL11]

Webber has said that he is keen to stay, I for one hope he doesn't, and I don't think Red Bull are favouring Vettel as you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I am wrong) as for Vettel dominating? Maybe in 2012 due to the rules being similar...however 2013 is a different matter.

I am, think it's obvious to see @ RBR.

 

[Slyboogy]

Well that's your opinion

 

[ATL11]

Well that's your opinion

It is, it's reason I only post my Motor Sport views on CTA. On here as long as you don't step stupidly out of line with the discussions we have....Clip the Apex is a fair minded forum to discuss all that is Motor Sport.

We have good heated debates on a spectrum of things with 4 wheels.

 

[Hamberg]

I found it quite interesting in the post race conference and subsequent interviews that Vettel failed to congratulate Button. He had a face like a baboons rear end. I was displeased.

 

[RickD]

Thats because Button made him crackk and he didn't have the downforce he usually has when going wide due to it being wet offline still.

 

[Bill Boddy]

I found it quite interesting in the post race conference and subsequent interviews that Vettel failed to congratulate Button. He had a face like a baboons rear end. I was displeased.

He congratulated Button just as they were about to go on the podium. Maybe he thought that it was not necessary to do it again for the media. And for his anti-fans (not Hamberg) it wouldn't be enough if he had been gushing about how marvellous Button is without stop since the end of the race.

 

[Sarinaide]

I know a lot will be like "hahahaha" but really what are the odds of him walking into Valencia and walking out with another win?

He is a great talent and a very promising "sky is the limit" driver, he may not be everyones cup of tea but you also need the ability to take the best car across the victory line.

Canada was a case of Inters were the right choice not slicks as his time droped more on the supersofts than it did on the intermediates.

As I said earlier in this thread, wonderkid maybe not, maybe so.....Great driver potential definately.

 

[ecclestoned]

I found it quite interesting in the post race conference and subsequent interviews that Vettel failed to congratulate Button. He had a face like a baboons rear end. I was displeased.

And I found it quite interesting that,while Button once out of his car,having taken all the time in the world to hug almost every crew member individually and his father,Vettel had waited patiently to congratulate him before going in.
I'm not so sure many other drivers would have wanted to stick around to watch such a long celebration by an opponent,knowing he was cheering a win that was given away by a mistake in turn 6 of the very last lap.

As for the baboon rear end comparison, I think it's about time you paid a visit to a zoo.

 

[Hamberg]

Sorry eccelstoned I didn't think it was appropriate to write face like a smacked arse on a public forum

 

[Hamberg]

He congratulated Button just as they were about to go on the podium. Maybe he thought that it was not necessary to do it again for the media. And for his anti-fans (not Hamberg) it wouldn't be enough if he had been gushing about how marvellous Button is without stop since the end of the race.

Apologies, I thought it was customary in the post race conference to comment on the winners drive. Just a courtesy thing, no gushing necessary (such as what Webber did) but kind of giving a bit of credit. I've only watched it twice so may have missed it. It's just such a massive contrast between when he wins and when he doesn't. He still extended his lead.

I did admittedly miss the congrats he gave after Button finished with the hugs n' stuff.

 

[RevMaxPower]

Sorry eccelstoned I didn't think it was appropriate to write face like a smacked arse on a public forum

Naughty Hamberg.

 

[Quintessentially]

Some of the criticisms of Vettel are fair, some of it is pure jealousy and the rest are open to debate. One of his biggest strengths is his precise driving so I was very surprised to see him go wide and gift Jenson a way past. Maybe the RB’s great traction and downforce levels have accentuated these precision skills and only a damp track prevented him from another win, who knows. I seem to remember him cooking his brakes after the SC restart at Valencia last year yet once again the RB’s good traction and downforce saved the day. Hamilton was much closer to him at Barcelona than Jenson was towards the finishing line yet he held up and didn’t panic. One thing he definitely has over Hamilton is temperament so even though he may look the lesser out and out racer he’s also more likely to be successful.

 

[Porceliamone]

You'd have a great temperament too if you were in the most forgiving and fastest car and had the team (offically or not) treating you as the number one driver. It's a bit different when you literally have to drag every last bit of performance; perhaps more than should be possible out of an inferior car to even get close to the one in front...

 

[Sarinaide]

I found it quite interesting in the post race conference and subsequent interviews that Vettel failed to congratulate Button. He had a face like a baboons rear end. I was displeased.

This all reminds me of the Dallas Mavericks beating the Superstar Miami Heat after they threw game victory excessive celebrations with time to spare and ended up losing.........this seems like a moral victory for Button so I don't blame him for going large on what will likely be his only victory this season.

That said, this Baboon faced guy you refer to will have the last laugh when he likely lifts the WDC in Abu Dhabi again.

 

[RasputinLives]

I have to say whenever I watch Vettel I feel like I'm watching Senna. Not the St Senna from the church of Senna that has been created since 1994 but the actual Senna I used to watch.

His similarity on the dominance of quali is startling and the way they were both more comfy out front in a race controlling the pace. Even the chop swerve manouver off the start is eerely the same. Senna was rarely in the position where he had to come back through the field because thats not how he liked to drive and Vettel is the same. I remember people questioning Senna's overtaking skills and the number of crashes he had with his rivals was quite high. What he was brilliant at though was getting through the traffic when it mattered and once again seeing Vettel clear all those cars in front of him when he came out in traffic in Turkey reminded me of Senna again. The last few races where people have been catching Vettel at the end and you've been willing them on but (apart from China and Canada) he always does enough to hold out and get the result - also very Sennaesque.

The booing in Canada was very interesting because now it even see's the fans and media are viewing him like Senna(and indeed like Schumi) any driver that leads from the front and continually wins races in that way is disliked because its seen as making the sport boring. Senna and Schumacher were quite happy to live with that and so will Vettel.

The final Sennaesque quality Vettel has is his ability to learn from mistakes. Unlike the portrail of him since his death Senna made many mistakes - but he never made the same one twice and Vettel is veyr much like that. He messed up the safety car in Valencia last year but did you see how perfect all of his saftey car starts were on Sunday? they were almost identical and almost perfect - it was only quick thinking by Alonso that stopped him sprinting off at all of them. As for the mistake and how he was after - you could see it hurt him where as China didn't. In China he did the best he could but was a sitting duck to fresh tyres and DRS - where this one was concerned he was pacing himself to the line thinking there wouldn't be anyone to challenege him and when Button got on his tail he realised he should have created a bigger gap, paniced and put it wide. He knows he messed up - but I'd lay £50 he won't make the same mistake again because its burned into his memory.

Under-estimate Vettel at your perial the Kids brain works overtime

 

[Porceliamone]

...Not the St Senna from the church of Senna that has been created since 1994 but the actual Senna I used to watch...

 

[ecclestoned]

Sorry eccelstoned I didn't think it was appropriate to write face like a smacked arse on a public forum

Don't hold your breath,just thought your comparison reeked a bit