Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Brogan]

I would call it the "oh no you won't"move.

Of course,we've seen most chop starts by Vettel,but then again he was more on pole than the other racers and consequently the center of attention for us and his nearest competitors.

That's a fair point.
Statistically he's going to be doing the 'oh no you won't' move more than the others just because he's on pole more than them.
I do think though if he concentrated more on going forward he may have more success.

P.S.:I didn't add any links,because with my technical efficacy I might have directed you guys to the Flintstone races in Jurassic Park.

I added some instructions here
http://cliptheapex.com/threads/how-do-i.2256/#post-44586

 

[Slyboogy]

I have read some comments here (not all)

But there seems to be a lot of criticism towards Vettel...people are acting like as if he's the only one making mistakes....look at Alonso in the same season, made the most errors, jumping the start in China, crashing in Monaco so he couldn't qualify his car on the grid, Silverstone not letting Kubica through therefore recieving a penalty and raging about it, raging about Hamilton in Valencia, crashing at Spa. Some are real schoolboy errors...

Then there's Hamilton aswell in 2008 making more errors than that.

Then there is that argument of "He only wins from pole" I have not seen a recent driver the past few seasons win not from being on the front or second row of the grid...Hamilton for example wins when he is 1st-4th on the grid. Vettel has won from not being on pole a fair few times.

Crashing into other competitiors? Well that happens, Spa was a mistake....but Turkey? I find both Vettel and Webber are to blame...Webber has his car angled, but keeps his steering wheel straight, trying to run Vettel off the road. Vettel is ahead, what is he meant to do? Go on the grass and lose control of the car anyway? In the end they both lost out due to it being both of their faults.

 

[Brogan]

But there seems to be a lot of criticism towards Vettel...

To be fair this is the Vettel thread.
No doubt if someone started a Hamilton or Alonso thread then there would be criticism and praise for both drivers.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I don't disagree with you slyboogy, other than Turkey 2010. In my view, only a staunch Vettel fan (or Webber detractor) could think that was anything other than 100% Sebastien's fault, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Slyboogy]

I am not a Vettel fan Chad...but I have always believed Webber was at fault too...

 

[sportsman]

It does appear that Vettel Vitriol is the norm on here.Most of it unfair in my opinion.I fully accept that he is prone to odd moves none of which deserve the amount of criticism levelled at him.

What was it Confucius said. The same object appears different according to the perspective from which it is viewed.

 

[Brogan]

This video removes any doubt as far as I'm concerned, with regards to Turkey 2010.

 

[Brogan]

It does appear that Vettel Vitriol is the norm on here.

I think that's wholly unfair.
You only have to read through the thread to see there is both criticism and praise, from a lot of members.

 

[Slyboogy]

This video removes any doubt as far as I'm concerned, with regards to Turkey 2010.

Both angles look different....from when you can see both of the cars...then when you see Vettel's steering action, it doesn't look as if he veered to the right.

I will watch it again

 

[Brogan]

then when you see Vettel's steering action, it doesn't look as if he veered to the right.

Just compare the distance between the white line at the edge of the track and his front left wheel, as he's passing Mark and then when they collide; so around 10 seconds and then 20 seconds.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

This video removes any doubt as far as I'm concerned, with regards to Turkey 2010.

I must say, that video doesn't change my view on the incident one bit, it just confirms it.
But that's what makes the sport so fascinating; that others can watch the same thing and come to a completely different view.
It's similar to Singapore 2010 for me, where I can't understand why more people don't share my view that Mark Webber, not Lewis Hamilton, caused the collision between them that ended Lewis' race (but on that one at least, I am a little biased).

 

[Fenderman]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so too it seems are the actions of man.
Vettel put his car there and Webber defends as Webber can.
The team mates collide as neither respect the capabilities of either one.
A lap or two later we see, how well it should be done,
With masterful work from Button and Hamilton.
So don't tell me young Seb has nothing to learn,
He's young, as is this season, so it's okay he has plenty of time,
But Wunderkind right now?
I don't think so. Only my perception, mind.

 

[Slyboogy]

Masterful? How both were told to safe fuel, and where told not to pass each other...yet Button pulls a sneaky one? And considering that they banged wheels to me suggests it isn't "masterful" Hamilton would have caused a collision no matter what...his face told it all

And Chad I agree there, I think it was Webber's fault, Hamilton was clear ahead then Webber had a tight line into the corner which everyone knew he wasn't going to make if he tried to comeback at Hamilton...

 

[FB]

Personally I still think Webber played his part in that. Vettel had the pass and, as we saw later in the year with Hamilton in Singapore, Webber is not a man to concede a corner even if he has been beaten.

All young drivers make mistakes and Vettel still has much to learn but he is, without doubt, one of the best drivers on the grid and I for one hope to see him winning many more races and Championships in the future.

 

[Fenderman]

I think it was evidenced again in China that Hamilton and Button have a healthy respect when racing wheel to wheel. When we see the same from Seb and Mark I'll be more than happy.

 

[teabagyokel]

I know I've been on Seb's side in general on this thread, but that was his fault. He attempted to take the line for the corner before completely pulling in front of the sister car.

When overtaking a team-mate extraordinary caution should be the norm and I don't think Seb completed his responsibility there.

I would say Spa was more debatable than that due to the odd wing movements.

 

[Bushi]

If think it leans more to Vettel's fault, but Webber had no intention to move either.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I think it leans more to Vettel's fault, but Webber had no intention to move either.

And there was no reason why he should have, either. He left (just) enough room for Vettel to pass, but it seems that wasn't enough for Seb.

 

[Bushi]

And there was no reason why he should have, either. He left (just) enough room for Vettel to pass, but it seems that wasn't enough for Seb.

True, but with the emphasis on just.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Enough is enough