Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Il_leone]

Blog Zbod
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24691202

 

[Mephistopheles]

Only I don't class Senna as a great, but that may be just me....

 

[Blog Zbod]

Updated list of Vettel 'firsts' and records:

Only driver to win first three titles in succession.
Only driver to win first four titles in succession.

Championship leader for most races in a season - 19 races - 2011.

Youngest pole sitter - 21 years, 72 days - 2008 Italian GP.
Youngest race winner - 21 years, 73 days - 2008 Italian GP.
Youngest driver to be on the podium - 21 years, 73 days - 2008 Italian GP.
Youngest driver to top a grand prix session - 19 years, 53 days - 2006 Turkish Grand Prix Practice Two.
Youngest driver to score a point - 19 years, 349 days - 2007 United States GP.
Youngest driver to lead a race - 20 years, 89 days - 2007 Japanese GP.
Youngest pole and win - 21 years, 73 days - 2008 Italian GP.
Youngest pole, win and fastest lap - 21 years, 353 days - 2009 British GP.
Youngest Grand Slam (pole, win, fastest lap and led every lap) - 24 years, 119 days - 2011 Indian GP.
Youngest World Champion - 23 years, 134 days - 2010.
Youngest double World Champion - 24 years, 98 days - 2011.
Youngest triple World Champion - 25 years, 145 days - 2012.
Youngest quadruple World Champion - 26 years, 117 days - 2013 (which is all a bit redundant, because once he became the youngest WDC, so long as he continues to take consecutive titles, each new WDC will be another new 'youngest' record)
Youngest race winner for two different teams - 21 years, 287 days - 2008 Italian GP for Toro Rosso and 2009 Chinese GP for Red Bull.
Youngest winner of same grand prix on two occasions - 23 years, 98 days - 2009 and 2010 Japanese GPs.
Youngest driver to drive on a GP weekend - 19 years, 53 days - 2006 Turkish Grand Prix.

Most front row starts in a season - 18 from 19 races in 2011.
Most wins from pole in a season - Nine in 2011. Joint top with Nigel Mansell.
Most consecutive top two results in qualifying and the race - 11 - 2010 Brazilian GP-2011 British GP.
Most pole positions at different GPs - 20 - joint top with Alain Prost.
Most laps led in a season - 739 laps - 2011.
Most points in a season, top three spots - 2011, 2013 & 2012, and his 2013 total could yet exceed 2011

Shortest time as an F1 driver before earning a penalty - Six seconds - speeding in pit-lane during practice for 2006 Turkish GP.

Rescored using 2010 points system, Vettel is 5° on list of highest average points scored per race (13.38 avg. points over 117 starts). Only one driver ahead of him - JM Fangio (15.65 avg. points over 51 starts) - started in more than two races. No other current driver is among the top 10 on this list.

 

[RasputinLives]

Only I don't class Senna as a great, but that may be just me....

Really? Thats crazy. Don't get put off by the shiney church of Senna thats made him a saint since he died. He truly was a genius in a race car. Some of the greatest qualifying laps ever.

As for Vettel. A certain member of CTA, who shall remain named after a fatvdutch driver, described Sebastian Vettel as the most undeserved 4 times world champion ever and I just shake my head in disbelief.

People the Red Bull is a very good car but it doesn't have an autopilot switch and whether he's your favourite driver or not if you can't see how talented the boy is from the sheer fact he can turn up week in week out and constantly knock it out of the park then there really is no helping you.

Add to the fact Newy's supercars are notorious for pretty much being made of Chocolate and breaking if you don't do things spot on(check it out over the years) and Mr Vettel gets not nearly enough credit for the job he does.

What he and his team have acheived over the last 4 years is simpley astonishing if you look at in comparrision with the history of the sport. Unfourtunatly for them peoplebhad a whole select bunch of drivers they'd decide were going tonbe winning titles over the last few years and Vettel(and Button) were not on that list and therefore the wins that are being acheived are met with a reaction of "it can't be down to him etc etc" because people don't like to be wrong.

 

[teabagyokel]

To be fair, RasputinLives, most undeserved quadruple champion simply means "slightly worse than Schumacher, Prost and Fangio".

It's an impossible comparison - Schumacher had some dominant cars, Fangio made sure he had them and Prost had 1993.

 

[Il_leone]

To be fair, RasputinLives, most undeserved quadruple champion simply means "slightly worse than Schumacher, Prost and Fangio".

It's an impossible comparison - Schumacher had some dominant cars, Fangio made sure he had them and Prost had 1993.

Fangio won in 4 different cars - the only in history to be back to back champ in different teams

Vettel worse than Schumacher well Red Bull did not tell the No 2 driver to move over or applied a few dirty tricks that Schumacher did

 

[Josh]

You know, I thought it was really honest and brave of Vettel to tell he was affected by all the booing. It's a little too easy to forget that professional athletes are humans too, and just because they are paid millons or you don't like what they're doing doesn't mean it gives you the right to be an asshole about it.

It probably won't stop, unfortunately. People are fucking idiots.

 

[teabagyokel]

Josh - How many times do you hear Hamilton talk about doing it for the fans? You'd expect similar motivation from all but one of the drivers and you wonder what the loss of that would do to someone's equilibrium.

Doesn't seem to affect his performance on track though.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think I've been misunderstood, just because I downgrade Senna for various reasons does not mean I don't think Vettel is one of the greats, to my knowledge Vettel has never cheated to win as Schumacher and Senna have on more than one occasion...

A driver or any sportsperson who resorts to cheating to win is not a great in my opinion take Lance Armstrong for example, thought to be a great and found to be nothing more than a cheat...

 

[Blog Zbod]

...A driver or any sportsperson who resorts to cheating to win is not a great in my opinion take Lance Armstrong for example, thought to be a great and found to be nothing more than a cheat...

Albeit a great cheat.


Vettel pitched in after India to help his grease monkeys pack up their kit. During the WDC/WCC party at India, one RBR mechanic told the AMuS reporter, "I really wish people could see this side of the guy." You can tish-tosh these small details, as if all drivers do the same, but the press in general are rather severe on Vettel, and I find very few similar details written about any other driver. And not just the British press, even some in the German motor racing press would sooner hare-lip the Pope than give him a kind word. Still, if you follow the dots, eventually a pattern emerges. His worker bees love him. He has been noted for a cordial relationship with his engineers dating back to his days at Formula BMW, and always goes to pains to provide them the information the require to improve his car, in great specificity.

The reference to F1 being a team sport isn't limited to the fact that each team have two cars and two drivers. Each team can bring a maximum 60 "operational staff" into the paddock during the race, which includes the two drivers. Each one of the 60 has dozens if not hundreds of hands-on duties they must perform. And a substantial number of those operations amount to potential single points of failure. A DNF in waiting. Literally thousands of tasks that depend on consistent and reliable performance from at least one of the other 58. Every session, every race weekend. For want of a nail, a shoe was lost. There are at least 58 other people who should receive equal credit every time Vettel (or any other driver) takes a chequered flag.

I think Vettel doesn't just look to his own perfection, I think he takes more of an active interest than any other driver in seeing that the other 58 staff all do their jobs more reliably, more consistently, even if it's only giving them a handshake and a word of heartfelt encouragement, or a simple display of solidarity, like helping his pit crew load up their kit.

I think the reason Vettel has won four World Driving Championships isn't because he is the best driver. I don't think it is entirely due to Adrian Newey being the best designer. I think the chief reason is because Vettel has been the most effective at assuring he has the best 58 teammates.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Fantastic celebration from Seb! Definitely earned some serious style points. Absolutely untouchable right now....

 

[Blog Zbod]

Mark Hughes writes that Vettel's advantage over Webber stems from his ease at dealing with the twitchy rear end that is part and parcel to the entry oversteer trick. The ability to catch the breakaway rear tyres -- which is all that separates squaring the corner from spinning out -- largely depends on the strength of the diffuser blowing, and Hughes reckons you could see Vettel's edge rise or fall as the blowing has been more or less effective.

Hughes quotes Horner on Vettel, "After P1 each Friday you will see him trying to work out where the biggest area of advantage is going to be, the removal of what limitation is going to find him the most lap time. He will go away and think about it, work towards it and then by Saturday he's devastating. And he's just getting better and better at that." From which Hughes surmises it wasn't the exhaust blowing that meshed with Vettel's driving habits but rather Vettel retooled his driving habits to extract the most benefit from it.

Martin Brundle fair fawns over Vettel's post-race at India, all the way from the donuts to helping the pit crew pack up. "...[H]e's long been a truly world-class driver and legend as far as I'm concerned, and I've seen every F1 lap he's ever competed in, often right beside the track almost within touching distance. He's incredibly fast, and he's learned how to apply that speed, through hard work, with devastating effect...."

 

[Jos the Boss]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24765490
Kimi: Pfft, amateur

 

[teabagyokel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/24796310


A quite passable Kimi impression, save for the fact he was still at the circuit at the end of the race.

 

[Blog Zbod]

Abu Dhabi was Fettel's 2° (dry race) victory of the season by >30 seconds. This hasn't happened twice the the same season since 1995, when MSC did it 3x.

The last time an F1 driver won by >30 seconds (in the dry) over his 2° place teammate, it was the other Schumacher over JPM by near abouts 40 seconds at Malaysia in 2002. But the margin wasn't all down to Ralf's blazing speed, because JPM had to serve a drive-thru for playing bumper cars with Ralf's brother (whose name escapes me) in the race's first turn.

It also was Fettel's 7° consecutive win, tying him for the record co-held with Ascari (1952-53) and MSC (2004).

It was his 9° consecutive podium, giving him fourth on the all-time list, but yet 10 podiums short of MSC's record, and two shy of his own personal best, from Brazil 2010 to Britain 2011.

Fettel's 11° win on the season also was his 11° (career) occasion to have led every lap, which ties him with MSC and The Mod Scot, but leaves him two shy of Jimmy Clark and eight behind Senna.

And it was his 60° career pole, tying him for 8° spot with Nelson Piquet (the senior).

 

[Bushi]

Blog Zbod 60th pole ----> podium.

 

[Blog Zbod]

Blog Zbod 60th pole ----> podium.

I stand corrected.

 

[Blog Zbod]

James Allen reckons Vettel's advantage in the first stint at Abu Dhabi demonstrated a superiority -- even over his teammate, who qualified on pole -- that would require 20 weeks in the wind tunnel to overcome.

Except it ain't the car, ...it's Vettel.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

For all we know Webber is total crap and should no longer be on the grid, Ricciardo will give us a reference against Vergne at least. Still it is impossible to fully credit Vettel until he races against either Hamilton or Alonso in the same machinery.

 

[Kewee]

no-FIAt-please ….. Never in the sports history have we been able to compare the World Champion with the 2nd or 3rd on the grid because they very rarely if ever end up in the same team. I think it's time to recognize Vettel's achievements, we are quite likely privileged to be watching the best driver the sports ever seen. I don't think there'll be a single record left unbroken by the time he retires. I'm still very much an Alonso fan but in Vettel I honestly believe I'm seeing something very special. He's a far better driver now than he was two years ago and a better driver than Schumacher ever was in my opinion.