Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Greenlantern101]

boring history in the making

 

[Mephistopheles]

That's the thing about F1, you can never ever tell how much is man and how much is machine.

A bit like robocop...

 

[RasputinLives]

I prefered Bladerunner. It was also funnier because it wasn't 2 weems afterwards

 

[Blog Zbod]

Vettel takes a lot of criticism because he always is racing from the front, can't overtake, only can win in the best car, yadda, yadda, yadda. All sour grapes, and all part of his (and Newey's) plan.

Pilots have a saying, the superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid having to use his superior skills. Lifeguards put it more succinctly: a good lifeguard never gets wet. Both groups are expressing the same core philosophy, that the best way to get out of trouble is never to get into it. Control the circumstances around you to prevent ever having to do the hard thing.

You can't diminish Vettel's success at this exact tactic. His teammate only wishes he were as good at it, as the majority of his retirements (which are approaching the stuff of legend) are attributable to the fact that he suffers from the argy-bargy that is inevitable when you run with the pack.

Into each life, a little rain must fall, but when Vettel's bad luck comes to call, it almost inevitably comes the best of times. Canada 2011 is a classic example. Tyres failing, Vettel skidded off the circuit and yielded the win to Button, but he was able to rejoin in P2. And as Button already had closed to within 1 second of him, and there was a DRS activation zone prior to the finish, it is quite likely Button would have won the race anyway.

When Vettel's tyre blew within seconds of the start of the 2011 GP of Abu Dhabi, all it cost him was bragging rights (and his results bonus) because he already had clinched the WDC. It's as if he never puts himself in a position where he might fall into the manure pile without he also has a bottle of eau de cologne in his back pocket.

Could it be just that the racing g-ds are smiling on him? Sure, but if it's all down to luck, the law of averages eventually will catch him up, and the bad luck along with it. But if he has a comeuppance on the way, it does not appear to be scheduled for deliver this season.

Blogger Motorhead at Eurosport makes a similar point:


Vettel makes F1 boring – and that’s why he’s a genius

"...[T]he problem with Vettel isn't that he's no good; it's that he's too good. And he takes part in a sport where driving quicker than everyone else paradoxically makes you very dull...."


"...What's more, if you're the best you actively set out to make the race as boring as possible.

You qualify on pole position, you accelerate away from the field, you nail your pit stops. If at all possible, you avoid having to overtake anyone at any point. You get in front, you press home your advantage, you minimise risk...."


"...If it really is all about the car, how come Vettel has more than twice as many points as Webber?

That cannot be explained away by so-called preferential treatment, dodgy overtaking manoeuvres or pure bad luck.

Webber got punted out of the race by Adrian Sutil in Korea - but that's because he was in harm's way. The Australian's demise only illustrates the benefit for Vettel and Red Bull of running a lonely race...."

 

[Bill Boddy]

I don't think that anyone says that Vettel is a good driver. What people do say is that his chances winning are improved immensely by the car he drives. The argument about Webber is a total red herring, he has had poor starts; the team even said hat it was their problem, not his.

Have a look at their qualifying results this year. The difference between them goes from 9 milliseconds (UK) to around 0.8 seconds ; most of the time it is around 2 to 3 tenths. Then look at Vettel's first lap in the races, especially since the mid season when they modified their software. When he is on pole he has had an advantage at the end of the first lap which is normally around 2 seconds. That is an enormous amount, no-one has ever had such a huge advantage (no doubt a trawl through the records will show I am wrong) that it simply could not be down to the driver alone. He simply is not 2 seconds faster than Alonso, Grosjean, Hamilton, Raikkonen and Rosberg over a single lap. In fact the Red Bull has such a large advantage that is simply not possible to see just how good Vettel is.

Vettel may be a genius but it is not possible to tell under the current circumstances.

 

[RasputinLives]

Thing is Bill Boddy Webber has always had poor starts so I don't tend to believe the thing about it being the cars problem not his. I believe it is something in the car he can't get his head round how to work (we often hear him being reminded of the start procedure on the warm up lap) but not that its a car issue. Not this many times and not for this long.

Plus some of his starts in his Jaguar days were shocking as well.

 

[Bushi]

If i remember correctly Vettel was the one who messed his starts up for the most part in 2010. It seems that he worked and improved his start and Webber just didn't.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I was meaning to mention this last week, and it's pretty much old news now, having been acknowledged by everyone in the paddock, but Red Bull are basically running a different engine than everyone else. Nevermind that it's fully legal, it has to be said that Vettel is working with a monumental advantage.

"I am sure for the races to come that we will be able to enhance the system even further -- to profit even more," world champion Sebastian Vettel told F1's official website.

He told reporters: "Other people will never figure out how we've done it."

 

[Bill Boddy]

RasputinLives I was trying to show that in basic speed there is little between Vettel and Webber in the one place you can be sure that they are both going flat out with equal conditions.

 

[MCLS]

Only 1 finish below 4th so far for Vettel this season and that was the DNF at Silverstone where he would undoubtedly have gone on to win, since his 2010 championship he's been the epitome of consistency not seen since the Schumacher Ferrari days

 

[teabagyokel]

Have a look at their qualifying results this year. The difference between them goes from 9 milliseconds (UK) to around 0.8 seconds ; most of the time it is around 2 to 3 tenths. Then look at Vettel's first lap in the races, especially since the mid season when they modified their software.

Sorry, Vettel's first lap has been the foundation for his race victories from as far back as 2011, never mind mid-season.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Agreed, but not by as much as 2 seconds as it is at the moment.

I am getting annoyed at the infra red cameras that they have suddenly discovered but would like to see Vettel's rear tyres from 10 seconds before the start until the end of the first lap. It could be illuminating.

 

[Fenderman]

.... as would thermal imaging of their diffuser and lower rear wing element ...

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Let's put Vettel's dominance into perspective shall we...

Schumacher 91 wins from 308 starts = 29.55%
Vettel 34wins from 115 starts = 29.56%

(Can't take credit for this great fact, nicked from another site )

 

[Bill Boddy]

Schumacher in crap car - 6 seasons
Vettel in crap car - possibly one season

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[Blog Zbod]

Let's put Vettel's dominance into perspective shall we...

Schumacher 91 wins from 308 starts = 29.55%
Vettel 34wins from 115 starts = 29.56%...)

Take away Schumacher's also-rans from his un-retirement period and what happens to the numbers?

...There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

34% of all statistics are made up.

 

[RasputinLives]

59% of the population of Clip The Apex believe you can prove anything with statistics.

He is pretty dominant though.

 

[teabagyokel]

For about 4 or 5 years Schumi had a pretty poor field to fight, but he was in some god-awful cars.

Maybe the comparison is moot.

 

[Blog Zbod]

Vettel Now has two grand slams in the 2013 season: take pole, lead every lap, fastest lap, and win. Only two other drivers ever have achieved the double grand slam, Alberto Ascari (1952) and Jimmy Clark (1963). Vettel did the same in 2011, so he actually is on the list twice. No driver ever has done the triple. Yet.

Vettel's 4th Grand Slam equals Stewart, Senna and Mansell.

Vettel has led 79% of all laps in all F1 races ever held at Yeongam. The only laps he has not led followed his engine letting go on lap 46 in the 2010 Korean GP.

Vettel will clinch the 2014 WDC if he wins at Suzuka and Alonso does not come 9° or better.

There were a total of 213 laps in the most recent four races. Vettel led 209 of them.

Vettel has crossed the finish line first every lap since Lap 28 at Monza, a total of 142 laps, 768 km. Last season his best streak was 205 laps and 1111 km. But it remains to be seen if this season's streak is at an end.


** Statistics nicked from Auto Motor und Sport

 

[teabagyokel]

Blog - Webber led at least one lap in Korea in the pit phase. No Grand Slam, sorry.

It's also worth saying there were very few GSes in the refuelling era.