Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Galahad]

Red Bull have far, far more drivers on their programme than anyone else, so it's inevitable that the vast majority are dumped at one stage or another, and that they have to use some pretty tough selection criteria. I don't really see a down side to any of that; those who accept the support of the scheme are grateful for it, and enter into it with their eyes open.

 

[Mryzyz]

It's hard to evaluate Vettel.

His pre F1 career wasn't all that spectacular (although I believe he was frequently amongst the youngest in the categories he competed in, dont quote me on that, though) and pre F1 achievements aren't a 100% accurate forebearer of F1 skill.

His team mates have been Bourdais and Webber, one he thrashed and the other until recently struggled to beat consistently. Neither were thought of as even close to elite. Webber was probably underrated most of his career however.

It is possible given the evidence we've seen he is the best driver ever. It is also possible, using the same evidence, to make the case that he is no better than Rosberg.

 

[Hamberg]

So Vettel can drive around on his own and go fast. Wow. How long did Vettel lead the WDC last year compared to Webber? I'm not saying he isn't better than Webber (at driving around on his own) but it's not a fantastic argument for how he thrashed Webber last season.

 

[TN23]

I don't think that there is a genuine debate considering whether Vettel is faster than Webber. The debate is about whether Vettel is as good as Alonso or Hamilton (No-one is performing up to the standards of Kubica last year).

Do I think he's as good as them, not as yet- but its a bit difficult to judge when drivers are still active in F1. Only now can we just begin to judge Alonso, Webber and Button, so we can't accurately evaluate Hamilton and Vettel yet.

Ironically, in my opinion*, 2010 was as a whole Vettel's worst year in terms of performance.

*Actually, all of this is my opinion

 

[Galahad]

Is it wrong to wonder why it matters? These things only really become clear in retrospect, and heaven knows Vettel has got a lot of career still to go.

 

[Slyboogy]

Another 20 years if he goes as far as Schumacher

 

[TN23]

Hope Red Bull don't last as long- or that Horner disappears, and they change their colour scheme, and Vettel gives up with the finger business.

I need mental help!

 

[ecclestoned]

Oh it hurts so much to see Vettel step in that car,push the automatic pilote button,lean back,and let the car do what it does best,leave the best drivers in the world behind it and win.
It's so sarcastic to keep showing which finger he uses to do that.
But for all his sceptics who have gradually come out of their closets and came flocking to this thread,there is still hope,I was told by a well informed source that in Valencia he had a long conversation behind closed doors in the Virgin camp.

 

[Speshal]

And there was me thinking this thread was about Seb V

 

[teabagyokel]

The "winning in a midfield car" posts have been sent off to their own thread.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Ta. It was getting more and more off topic. Sorry.

 

[RevMaxPower]

Sebastian Vettel is good because he is (nowadays ) cool, calm and collected when in his cockpit. Admittedly he has a great car again this year but his composure on the track is beginning to tell.

In my opinion he will go far. Some of the others need to get their act together. Fast...

 

[Fenderman]

Before the day is out an 11th hour happy birthday Sebastian. 24 today.

 

[teabagyokel]

There aren't many drivers to win Grands Prix before their 24th Birthday!

 

[sportsman]

There aren't many drivers to win Grands Prix before their 24th Birthday!

Even fewer to win the WDC.

 

[Fenderman]

Indeed. (got to chuckle when I say that).​

 

[RevMaxPower]

It's not that difficult to do when you have a car that's quicker than the rest. Agreed you need skill to keep the thing on the island but I'm certain other drivers could win if seats were swapped. You know I'm right...

And I'm not knocking Seb - just stating an opinion.

 

[FB]

I think Jenson Button proved that many drivers on the grid, with the right equipment, can be winners. However, the way that Vettel is dominating this season, both the other drivers and, most importantly, his team mate I think proves that he is amongst the top 3 or 4 drivers on the grid. He has his faults, yes, but then so do Hamilton, Alonso, Button et al - heck even Prost and the now sainted Ayrton Senna had faults.

Let's not not knock the guy because he's winning in a winning car, he's doing what he's supposed to do and there's many drivers who have failed to capitalise on this sort of opportunity **cough** David Coulthard **cough**

 

[sportsman]

He has probably the best car on the grid its true.But nonetheless, he is good, bloody good.
And all this childish nonsense about his finger has nothing to do with his driving ability.

 

[Jen]

He has probably the best car on the grid its true.But nonetheless, he is good, bloody good.
And all this childish nonsense about his finger has nothing to do with his driving ability.

It might be childish nonsense - and I find it quite irritating - but it is becoming his trademark. I could be argued that more people will remember him for his digit than his racing which would negate his talent.