Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[F1Brits_90]

No one knew that was going to make up 4 sec and they had to react to Verstappen plus Leclerc simply wasn't fast enough after his stop. He had close to 35 laps to overtake Vettel not once did he make a move

correct me if im wrong but this is not a Leclerc overtake issue, i dont think we saw 1 on track pass in the top 7 for the entirety of race it was either accidents or pit lane

I think most of us are fair on here & if we you think we have a vendetta just because we critize then i must have a vendetta with about 80% of grid at some point this season. take germany praised vettel & hammered leclerc

 

[Bernoulli]

I think most of us are fair on here & if we you think we have a vendetta just because we critize then i must have a vendetta with about 80% of grid at some point this season. take germany praised vettel & hammered leclerc

I was referring to one specific user. He's not only having a go, he's not taking part in a sensible discussion just throwing things into his post without having looked at any facts. I don't mind criticism, but it has to be sensible by that I mean based on some facts.

One more fact adding to the others I've posted: Leclerc was down on the delta given by Ferrari by 1.1 sec if you go and listen to the team radio on F1TV.

 

[Il_leone]

If you were in Leclerc's position you would be wondering how many times do I need to be screwed over by my team when I've shown I am faster than Vettel more than not this season plus he had the momentum as well

Vettel is living on past reputation and glory. Is he still one of the top 3 drivers on the grid ? - probably not now . He's had Kimi as his lackey because he thinks that way Ferrari will back him up fully and clearly he or the spaghetti hierarchy did not seem to agree with him

If Ferrari keep winning Leclerc will be wondering if Singapore will come back and against him as its clear they have a car capable now being faster than Mercedes consistently because they wanted to boost Vettel's ego.

I can see a Villeneuve / Pironi situation brewing up

 

[Bernoulli]

If you were in Leclerc's position you would be wondering how many times do I need to be screwed over by my team when I've shown I am faster than Vettel more than not this season plus he had the momentum as well

Vettel is living on past reputation and glory. Is he still one of the top 3 drivers on the grid ? - probably not now . He's had Kimi as his lackey because he thinks that way Ferrari will back him up fully and clearly he or the spaghetti hierarchy did not seem to agree with him

If Ferrari keep winning Leclerc will be wondering if Singapore will come back and against him as its clear they have a car capable now being faster than Mercedes consistently because they wanted to boost Vettel's ego.

I can see a Villeneuve / Pironi situation brewing up

Leclerc didn't get screwed over. He was below his delta by 1.1 sec - fact. Vettel's pit stop was .6 sec slower than Leclerc's - fact. Had Ferrari pitted Vettel a lap after Leclerc then he would have finished 3rd or 4th - fact, instead they finished 1-2 by employing the strategy they did.
Vettel went through traffic like a hot knife through butter, Leclerc got stuck several times, he's only got himself to blame.

The times he was told to move over for Vettel, he told very clearly over team radio. Everyone can listen to the messages they're out there.

 

[FB]

And when he farts it smells of roses, rainbows fill the sky and unicorns dance in the clouds

 

[Il_leone]

Had the reverse situation happened I am pretty sure Vettel would have been seething if Leclerc did not move over based on Binotto's 50/50 judgment last week

Anyway Vettel got outqualified again by Leclerc and the gap could have been bigger. I hope Leclerc 's race is not screwed tomorrow

 

[Ruslan]

Has any former world champion been outqualified nine times in a row by his teammate?

 

[FB]

Jody Scheckter?

 

[Ruslan]

Jody Scheckter?

Good call !!! Scheckter won the world championship in 1979, was out qualified by Villenueve in the last 11 races of 1980, and then retired.

 

[Il_leone]

Well after today I think Vettel's career at Ferrari is finished and he managed to screw Leclerc's race as well and probably an outside chance of the title gone as well

 

[Bernoulli]

What exactly do you mean?

And Leclerc had no outside chance of the title, what have you been watching?

 

[Il_leone]

Vettel has cost Leclerc probably 18pts today - a race they should have won if he played the team game

Another race Ferrari that should have won and messed up . Leclerc should have finished 1st and Hamilton got 2nd and ended up losing a further 11pts today
I said last week had repurcussions letting Vettel win and its proven it .

Another Ferrari win would have got Mercedes worried because then its clear Ferrari needed to back Leclerc whilst Mercedes are not at the moment reluctant to say to Bottas back Hamilton

Clearly the tactic was for Vettel to be the rear gunner to Leclerc and he failed to do that when asked to let him pass by the team . Vettel has given perfect ammunition to be dismissed

 

[Titch]

I can’t see that happening just yet.

 

[Bernoulli]

Vettel has cost Leclerc probably 18pts today - a race they should have won if he played the team game

Another race Ferrari that should have won and messed up . Leclerc should have finished 1st and Hamilton got 2nd and ended up losing a further 11pts today
I said last week had repurcussions letting Vettel win and its proven it .

Another Ferrari win would have got Mercedes worried because then its clear Ferrari needed to back Leclerc whilst Mercedes are not at the moment reluctant to say to Bottas back Hamilton

Clearly the tactic was for Vettel to be the rear gunner to Leclerc and he failed to do that when asked to let him pass by the team . Vettel has given perfect ammunition to be dismissed

Leclerc wasn't fast enough to get within DRS range of Vettel as I said he was 1.5 sec behind Vettel - Vettel would have had to stop on track to let him by such was the pace of Leclerc during the first stint. He would have only backed Vettel up into Hamilton. Ferrari's goal was a 1-2 with Leclerc as the race winner that's why they swapped positions during the pit stop phase which was also less risky than letting Leclerc pass on track.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

What a weird situation it would be for the average spectator to see a clearly-faster Vettel fall back to let a slower Leclerc past, and then presumably sit behind in his wake for lap after lap. I understand the agreement supposedly made before the race but this would only really work if they were fairly evenly matched in terms of pace, which today they weren't.

 

[Il_leone]

All Vettel managed to do was destroy Leclerc's tyres and mess around with the Ferrari strategy to the point they forgot they were suppose to racing Mercedes not themselves . I thought Vettel said last week " No individual was bigger than the team

His actions speaks volumes to the team to say either back him or he's prepared to get himself out of Ferrari. He would not be doing it if he does not think he can land a drive elsewhere

Marko insists Sebastian Vettel has no future with Ferrari

JONATHAN MCEVOY IN SOCHI: Sebastian Vettel has been told by the man who discovered him that his Ferrari career is over. Helmut Marko handed the German his debut with Toro Rosso in 2007.

www.dailymail.co.uk

For once Helmut is saying the truth that Vettel has no future at Ferrari ... that Red Bull seat is still up for grabs

 

[Ruslan]

For once Helmut is saying the truth that Vettel has no future at Ferrari ... that Red Bull seat is still up for grabs

It is a very self-serving statement also. Marko is really good at that.

 

[Il_leone]

Helmut has only ever praised Vettel or Verstappen as far as I remember

 

[F1Brits_90]

It is a very self-serving statement also. Marko is really good at that.

was it back in austria that we talking about red bull talking like this to have a replacement for if/when verstappen leaves

 

[Il_leone]

F1Brits_90 Helmut does not tend to nose into other team's business unless off course he might consider offering that driver a get out of jail card so to speak like Flavio did with Alonso