Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[F1Brits_90]

Malaysia was arrogance he thought he was above horner & defied management orders. & if that wasn't bad enough he then lied to everyones faces in china without a ounce of remorse

 

[Grizzly]

Don't rise to it F1Brits_90. Neither seem interested in anything except the sound of their own voice.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Einstein said:

"Because I have been a success the German's say that I am a German and the French say that I am a Jew; had I been a failure the French would have said that I was a German and the Germans would have said that I was a Jew."

 

[Izumi]

Malaysia was arrogance he thought he was above horner & defied management orders. ...

The incident and some background to that story was explained by Horner at later date, as he has understood and accepted what motivated Vettel. Fans, on the other hand, whilst will be for decades remembering only what they want to hear - one side of the story, very seldom if ever bring up, that it was actually payback by Vettel to Webber, because that one pulled similar stunt on Vettel in one of earlier races. That incident is hardly ever discussed.

Vettel's detractors of course aren't interested in causation. George Will, staunch conservative of Princeton ilk, likes to say about our times... it must be true, because people (here fans) saying so, and (especially) if they repeat it three time (then it is confirmed).

 

[F1Brits_90]

Don't rise to it F1Brits_90. Neither seem interested in anything except the sound of their own voice.

I know shouldn't but I do hate injustice which izumi I don't mind because it doesnt surprise me , but i expect better from siffert_fan

 

[F1Brits_90]

The incident and some background to that story was explained by Horner at later date, as he has understood and accepted what motivated Vettel. Fans, on the other hand, whilst will be for decades remembering only what they want to hear - one side of the story, very seldom if ever bring up, that it was actually payback by Vettel to Webber, because that one pulled similar stunt on Vettel in one of earlier races.

Vettel's detractors of course aren't interested in causation. George Will, staunch conservative of Princeton ilk, likes to say about our times... it must be true, because people (here fans) saying so, and (especially) if they repeat it three time (then it is confirmed).

dont take it the wrong way. i couldnt give a toss on what vettel said after the event or how he tried to worm his way out of it. 2 wrongs don't make a right I assume that senna was right to ram prost of the road in 1990 because of what prost wrong doing in 1988. you could give Farage a run for his money for talking out of the rear end

The fact & is there in glorious technicolour. Red Bull said multi 21 don't overtake stay behind, he overtook webber. no amount of BS will avoid that fact

end of conversation

 

[Il_leone]

Point 1 Vettel has never been beaten by his teammates argument . What is the caliber of Vettel's teammates compared to Hamilton's first of all to say Vettel's record is better. Apart from Ricciardo , Vettel has had rubbish teammates until faced with Le Clerc. Sorry but Webber is not as good as Button probably on the same level as Bottas. You're gonna say Rosberg got beaten by Webber but that Williams car was a dog and Rosberg was in his first season

Raikkonen- was 10 years past his best when they were teammates

 

[Brogan]

So with the fastest car and the assistance of the team, Vettel finally managed a win after 13 months without one.

 

[Titch]

Yes. But why. They wanted a team 1-2. Which gave them a knock back for the best driver they have had in a long time.
Is this good thinking. Who knows.
I’m obviously not Italian.

 

[Izumi]

No one was knocking anyone in that race. Circumstances under which he was pitted is one thing, however more importantly, Vettel neutralized gap deficit to the lead, and overcome slower pit stop in comparison to Leclerc's time in the box. Vettel drove well in that race, and that's all what is to it. It's not his first win on that track.

 

[vintly]

Vettel got lucky with the way the pit-stops shook out. The team didn't set out to help him over Leclerc, it just panned out that way.

 

[F1Brits_90]

to tell vettel to push on his outlap & say nothing to Leclerc who earned the better strategy by getting pole & following team stategy to the letter is highly unethical. is what you expect from different teams not teammates. this was different in spa & monza because Vettel never had a chance of winning them grand prix as he had no answer to pace of lewis & Leclerc. Leclerc would've won this race. this is smells of giving vettel a victory to take the pressure of him.

which in short term I don't will give the benefit Ferrari are hoping for because his drive in germany from 2nd which was fantastic was more "vettels back" than that win in Singapore. of course it isn't the same level but it is reason I never let my nieces win because I don't see what they learn or achieve from that & I can tell you when they beat there parents on merit at pool on holiday (1 beat her mum 3 times) that would've meant more

 

[Bill Boddy]

Definitely the team should have told Leclerc what they had done and to push hard. He is right to feel aggrieved.

 

[vintly]

I see it as more of a cock-up by Leclerc's race engineer - not telling him to push hard - if that's what really happaened – than a team consipracy to help Vettel win over Leclerc. But who really knows, and will any definitive details come out I wonder.

Tomorrow's chip paper anyway.

 

[Izumi]

Definitely the team should have told Leclerc what they had done and to push hard. He is right to feel aggrieved.

I am not sure how smart it would be for Ferrari to play one driver against other, but whatever... BTW, both drivers were told (indirectly) to "push".
Vettel - you are racing (outlap) Hamilton, and you have open track. Sounds clear to me what he should do.
Leclerc - you have Hamilton behind you with DRS open (on inlap). How much more clarification he needs to drive fast?

 

[Andyoak]

I like the Mansell method.
Just drive fast and leave it to the engineers to build a car that can cope.

 

[Il_leone]

Its happened more than once where the Ferrari engineer on Leclerc does not seem to get the right information to him and he seems to to seemingly screwed every time

It happened in Montreal when Leclerc was closing in at the end but was not told that Vettel was going to get a 5 second penalty.

I am waiting for Leclerc to do a Pironi on Vettel

 

[F1Brits_90]

Leclerc - you have Hamilton behind you with DRS open (on inlap)

that just means get a good exit out of 5 & defend going into turn 7 + turn 14. Ferrari cocked up not for the 1st time. you qualify on pole you get preference on statergy it always been the way in F1

 

[Bernoulli]

No one knew that was going to make up 4 sec and they had to react to Verstappen plus Leclerc simply wasn't fast enough after his stop. He had close to 35 laps to overtake Vettel not once did he make a move.

It happened in Montreal when Leclerc was closing in at the end but was not told that Vettel was going to get a 5 second penalty.

Sure, and while Vettel and Hamilton are pushing hard at the front, Leclerc would have just cruised up to them if Ferrari had told him to drive faster. I only been reading your posts since Sunday but are you out on some sort of crusade against Vettel/Ferrari?

 

[Izumi]

I only been reading your posts since Sunday but are you out on some sort of crusade against Vettel/Ferrari?

Bingo.