Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[vintly]

He's stuck in a hybrid-era-F1 situation that he doesn't agree with, hasn't mastered and is hence faltering. He has to lump it but it affects his game.

 

[Greenlantern101]

He is a midfeild driver who for a few years had the best car. Now he has been found out.

 

[Titch]

He was never in the same league as Michael Schumacher.

 

[gethinceri]

Do you live in Germany currently Izumi?

 

[F1Brits_90]

He is a midfeild driver who for a few years had the best car. Now he has been found out.

i wouldn't disagree i can see the point & what doesnt help is being a 4 time champion because you are held to higher standard add in driving for ferrari where you are held to higher standard. means you are expected to be elite.

the same way my Sheff utd when we were in 3rd tier 80% of other teams, 5th place & play offs would be great season. but we were biggest club in that league. so anything thats not top 2 was a big failure & risking manager his job

 

[siffert_fan]

Greenlantern10

IMO there are 3 differences between Vettel and Hamilton:

1. Vettel has never been beaten by a teammate while Hamilton has been beaten twice and tied by a third.

2. Hamilton has been in a totally dominant car for more seasons than Vettel.

3. They have different nationalities. I believe THIS is the over-riding factor in most people's evaluations of the 2 drivers.

 

[RasputinLives]

Yeah people don't like Vettel because they are racist

Christ on a bike.

 

[siffert_fan]

Since when are nationality and race the same thing?

 

[Angel]

Greenlantern10

IMO there are 3 differences between Vettel and Hamilton:

1. Vettel has never been beaten by a teammate while Hamilton has been beaten twice and tied by a third.

2. Hamilton has been in a totally dominant car for more seasons than Vettel.

3. They have different nationalities. I believe THIS is the over-riding factor in most people's evaluations of the 2 drivers.

Much as it pains me to do so I have to point out that you're wrong on point 1. Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo in 2014, Seb had no wins that year whilst Daniel had 3 I believe . Daniel ended the season with quite a few more points than Seb did as you'd expect but I can't recall the numbers off the top of my head I'm afraid.

I would say you're spot on with points 2 and 3 though.

 

[RasputinLives]

Since when are nationality and race the same thing?

Can you imagine if I came on here siffert_fan and said the main reason that people don't like Hamilton is because be is black? You'd be up in arms mate and give us a whole list of reason why you don't rate him. Yet your happy to say the reason people don't rate Vettel is because he is German.

Ever thought people don't rate him because the simply don't rate him. People can have a different view from you because they think differently. They don't have to be a racist or an idiot to have a different view point. The world is subjective.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

I think that Sebastian Vettel was beaten by Daniel Ricciardo in the 2014 season.
siffert_fan

 

[Bill Boddy]

I told you so.

After Vettel had won his 4th championship people were saying how marvellous a driver he was whilst I urged caution because he had not really had competition. Now I think that he is a very good driver but with serious limitations.

 

[Il_leone]

Greenlantern10

IMO there are 3 differences between Vettel and Hamilton:

1. Vettel has never been beaten by a teammate while Hamilton has been beaten twice and tied by a third.

2. Hamilton has been in a totally dominant car for more seasons than Vettel.

3. They have different nationalities. I believe THIS is the over-riding factor in most people's evaluations of the 2 drivers.

Point 1 - 1st teammate was a world champion and finished 2nd that season with 12 podiums only to the dominant Vettel, 2nd teammate is the only one to defeat him to become world champion

3rd teammate was the reigning World Champion and the best on the grid, Hamilton was classed 2nd based on score countback and the end result was his teammate left Mclaren sulking and cost himself probably 3 world titles

Point 2 - Last year Ferrari and Mercedes were neck and neck but Vettel and Ferrari failed to work together to deliver the title. At the start last year they could have won the first 4 races but did not and kept making error after error as the season progresses

2009 - the best car on the grid was Red Bull driven by Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel but they failed to win the title because they and the team kept making errors at crucial moments

Point 3 - Ridiculous short sighted opinion so if everyone hates Verstappen is it because he is Dutch - nope because he acts like a twat which is what Vettel does whenever things goes wrong for him and I am sure people get sick of his finger salute. There is a feeling that Kimi was his teammate at Ferrari because he demanded it when people wanted to see another top driver alongside him like Ricciardo or Verstappen which annoys people to be denied the chance to see this

 

[F1Brits_90]

1. Vettel has never been beaten by a teammate while Hamilton has been beaten twice and tied by a third.

apart from Ricardio & use that stat while you can because come dec 1st. they will beaten by 2 teammates

2. Hamilton has been in a totally dominant car for more seasons than Vettel.

im not sure about that vettel was 2010 2011 2012 & 2013. hamilton was 2014 2015 & 2016. in the last 3 seasons Hamilton has put in some great drives to make mercedes better than it looked

3. They have different nationalities. I believe THIS is the over-riding factor in most people's evaluations of the 2 drivers.

really this isnt 1945 im disliking vettel because he is from defeated nazi Germany & hamilton is Winston Churchill. i making judgments on their racing record. hamilton is better driver over the whole 11 years. because he has been Able to adapt to many different rules & cars

 

[Izumi]

Greenlantern10

IMO there are 3 differences between Vettel and Hamilton:

1. Vettel has never been beaten by a teammate while Hamilton has been beaten twice and tied by a third.

2. Hamilton has been in a totally dominant car for more seasons than Vettel.

3. They have different nationalities. I believe THIS is the over-riding factor in most people's evaluations of the 2 drivers.

Point 1 - in stat terms, he was defeated by Ricciardo. Whole year however in different context may exonerate his position. This however will not be accepted on this (or any other) forum.

Point 2 - I agree.

Point 3 - Sadly, I also must agree. This is not just restricted to Vettel, but any German driver in position to lead series. Schumacher, Rosberg, Vettel ... the same BS in F1 media feeding poisoned challis to fans, but again, this will be denied without a second thought. Anyway, that's how I see it.

Point 4 - I am going to receive some beating for this, but I think Hamilton over years is being treated differently by FiA.

 

[Dartman]

Since the new breed of drivers have arrived on the scene in the last 20 years there has always been favouritism to some drivers perceived or factual with regard to penalties, sometimes it depends on the team they are driving for, unfairly apparently treated, change team and and they become bullet proof and Hamilton is a good example of that. Probably the earliest suspicion of favouritism was in 1976 with the Hunt/Lauda battle and the stewards were continually changing their minds regarding the interpretation of the rules,. the rules have always been open to interpretation by just about anyone.

 

[RasputinLives]

Do you know who one of the most popular and loved drivers in recent time was? Nick Heidfeld. What nationality was he? I mean you can all nail yourself to the cross all you like and whisper persecution but it's not going to change anyone's mind, it's just going to anger the vast majority that don't have that prejudice at being told they have that prejudice. But maybe that's the idea I don't know.

 

[Dartman]

Arrogant drivers are never liked no matter what nationality or race, and Max is pushing the borderline or was, not in the clear yet. Similarly pleasant amusing drivers are always liked irrespective of nationality, look at Kimi

 

[F1Brits_90]

Do you know who one of the most popular and loved drivers in recent time was? Nick Heidfeld. What nationality was he? I mean you can all nail yourself to the cross all you like and whisper persecution but it's not going to change anyone's mind, it's just going to anger the vast majority that don't have that prejudice at being told they have that prejudice. But maybe that's the idea I don't know.

it is ridiculous that just because some people think that hamilton is better driver because of prejudice according to siffert_fan & Izumi which is ridiculous on the numerous points ive made over the last week, here is a new one aside from Germany few races ago. when did Hamilton have a bad race off top of my head I would say Bottas 1st win, back in 2017 Vettel has had nearly 10+ since then. on nationality as you say Heidfeld as you say, Frentzen & Hulkenburg all german all popular with me anyway, Hulkenburg for god sake ive been banging his drum to be in top 3 team since 2012, ive called him the greatest driver never to stand on a podium. but then again this is 1945 & i hate all Germans. I dont want to go down the route, quoting i dont see creed or colour because its a bit corny, but i don't. thats the great thing about all sport you judge people on talent & results. i wouldve disliked Vettel, Rosberg & Schumacher whether whether they came from outer Mongolia.

Vettel - in Monza he complaining that leclerc defied a direct team order in Q3. but deliberately or accidently who knows in that chaos to give a tow. which is fine because Vettel would never dream of defing a direct team order Multi 21 & wanted kimi over leclerc

Rosberg - gives out of lovely family man image but he was a ruthless cheat, monaco was proof of that when he wanted pole so much that he would deliberately outbrake himself bring out a yellow to stop lewis from taking pole, he was also took too many risks on 1st lap that cost the team Spain & Belgium

Schumacher - i know its not right thing to speak ill of the injured. but we cant let him off the hook for terrible things he did because of a skiing accident. 94 1st of all he had a illegal car & did his time, then he has an accident at adelaide & as folklore goes knows his car will be retired so makes sure Hill has to retire. 97 tried to ram a fellow racer off the road & potentially injure him lets not forget only 3 yrs after that tragic san marino weekend. 2006 deliberately parked it at raccasse to make sure nobody could improve

 

[Izumi]

Vettel is arrogant? In last 10 years in following his career that has never occurred to me. Hamilton however...