Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy I am aware you can restrict fake news and malicious rumours on the net but I certainly did not ask for it to be removed

 

[Dartman]

Il_leone He means the link no longer works, not that it was removed from CTA

 

[F1Brits_90]

if it link was correct, isn't this politics because as we know the paddock rumour is that Verstappen could be leaving in 2020. which leaves a big opening at red bull. which I think is just coincental if Marko saying vettel needs to leave (& join us)

 

[Il_leone]

F1Brits_90 My thoughts exactly that Helmut shot himself in the foot or mout for saying Vettel should leave if he is not happy then who do you think Ferrari will try and poach then if not Hamilton

 

[Titch]

Why would Hamilton want to go to Ferrari when he’s in the top team already?

And why would Mercedes want to hire Vettel as he’s on the decline?

 

[Angel]

No idea Titch, I can't see it happening myself. However after another Ferrari mess up I can see him not being there next year one way or the other.

 

[Il_leone]

Titch The most famous team in F1 and at the moment there is a nice carrot being dangled that they have not won the drivers title for over 10 years plus no doubt a lot of money in excess of $50m Hamilton could command being the best driver in F1 and get a free Ferrari

Its prestige to be driving for Ferrari. That is the only thing missing from Hamilton's CV although he would be foolish to do it unless he can galvanise the team in a way Vettel cannot.

For Mercedes - the best German driver still around in the paddock possibly . You never say never in F1 . Vettel needs Mercedes more than Hamilton needs Ferrari to regain his reputation which is falling like a stone

 

[Titch]

Il_leone I can actually see that the challenge of bringing the title back to Ferrari might be a huge attraction. But does Hamilton believe that as a driver he can do that. Or is he a realist and he knows that without a brilliant engineering team, he can drive his socks off, and still not deliver the dream.

 

[Dartman]

Perhaps Max may like to try Ferrari

 

[Il_leone]

Titch Exactly I think Schumacher was able to achieve so much at Ferrari because he had Brawn and Byrne along with Todt handling the politics so did not get distracted and pressured with that. Not as obvious it seems , Vettel is under pressure to deliver and is finding it difficult

 

[Bill Boddy]

Titch Exactly I think Schumacher was able to achieve so much at Ferrari because he had Brawn and Byrne along with Todt handling the politics so did not get distracted and pressured with that. Not as obvious it seems , Vettel is under pressure to deliver and is finding it difficult

I take it that you do not do forecasting as your profession?

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy What if I did then ? and my name is not Michael Fish just in case you're wondering

A strange race for Vettel who did nothing when it was wet and was not quick and as soon he was on dry tyres he was suddenly fastest man on the track ... a sort of Heinz Harald Frentzen performance

 

[Bill Boddy]

Vettel said that he had not been comfortable with the intermediates Il_leone. He did keep spend much of the race unable to get past Raikkonen but he didn't do anything silly, maybe he learned from last year. I didn't keep track of everything but does anyone know how many spins/offs did Vettel have?

I'm sorry if I offended you Il_leone, it was meant as a bit tongue in cheek.

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy Not offended at all I realise I spoke too soon and pre empting possibly Vettel's last German GP if he had another bad race. Its amazing I thought had Le Clerc won there would have been calls to get him to be Ferrari No1 and no doubt movement to get Vettel out of Ferrari - not quite like Lauda though back in the 70's

Some people might think Vettel drove like Prost in able to pick off people and get points he should not but for the first half when it was damp/ wet he was very average so to end up getting 2nd place was a miracle. No he did not spin but he was not quick either

 

[Bill Boddy]

[QUOTE="Il_leone, post: 352371, member: 1445"....No he did not spin but he was not quick either[/QUOTE]

He finished in front of all the cars bar one having started at the back. There were eighteen drivers who would have loved to do that.

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy Yes but the flip side could be if he was so quick in the dry , then was not he quick in the wet / damp conditions ?

 

[Bill Boddy]

Maybe, Il_leone because his car was set up for dry conditions which were unsuitable for wet conditions. Or maybe he bore in mind what happened last year and he realised that being cautious would pay off in the long run due to not losing time in incidents.

You will need to ask Vettel for the answer to your question.

 

[Izumi]

What is happening with Sebastian? There is something on his mind that is bothering him for very long time. He is clearly agitated with treatment he receives on regular basis from media, fans and FiA, but there must be more than we see, or know about. He has not had that many off with RBR, and I don't think he forgot how to drive a car.

 

[F1Brits_90]

yes it strange 1 I think unlike lewis where he proves his quality in every rule change, Vettel hit the sweet spot in 2010 - 13 he was fantastic in that car & newey great aero & capitalised. but outside of that era he is probally just very good not great. I know its not popular opinion but I still say he needed to win a 5th world title at Ferrari. to stop the talk of newey & red bull

 

[RasputinLives]

I think it's Sebastian Vettel's fans who are agitated by his treatment from FIA and other fans. This year frankly Vettel seems to have shown very little enthusiasm or annoyance about anything F1 and I think that's where the issue is. I just think he can't be bothered anymore. Just like Hakkenien.