Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[Il_leone]

There is no way Mick Schumacher will be a Ferrari driver next season or now .. Two drivers driving for the team under 25 years old is unheard of and seriously Mick is years away from driving for a top team.

I still say Perez unless someone is a fan of K Mag who's reputation as a rough racer is not winning him over anyone

 

[F1Brits_90]

i was just thinking that 3rd spell at ferrari for kimi. perez maybe. i would go to riccardio test his loyalty to Renault. Mick Schumacher no he had the odd great drive but nothing sparkling & isnt beating his team gelael who makes haraynto look like his mick dad. 2022 earliest opportunity for ferrari. 2020 F2, 2021 sauber 2022/23 ferrari

but can i say ive been saying since september vettel wont be at ferrari next season. i thought in swap with hamilton as he got outshone by leclerc might be more ferrari incompetence now. but he cant retire vettel has discussed in depth. previous in my opinion vettel needs a world title outside of that era & red bull. for his legacy as it will always be, hes was a great driver but

 

[Ruslan]

Well, if Vettel were to retire at the end of the year (and I am far from sure that is the case....although the rumor does give him an advantage in negotiation and status in the team), then Perez is a very good choice. Experienced, capable, fast and a smart reliable driver, but probably not really a threat to upstage Leclerc. It is a good match to pair up with the latest boy wonder. Importantly, I suspect he is available, and many other options are well under contract.

 

[Angel]

Thanks for that info RasputinLives As I say I don't watch the other race series, so I didn't know how well young Mick was doing. I guess he's not an option then if Seb does hang up his helmet. Ferrari's options would be limited in that scenario, Kimi would appear to be a favourable option, maybe that is why he didn't retire and went to Sauber for this season.

 

[Il_leone]

the stats was something like over 300 days since his last pole and nearly 8 months since his last win

I've been saying there will come a point at Ferrari that once they've ran out of scapegoats then its usually the lead driver they turn on. It happened with Prost and Alonso so why not Vettel.

Binotto is in the hot seat and feeling it but I aint suprised within Maranello they are few turning on Vettel and being pro LeClerc. Charles has looked like he could win a race this season for Ferrari, Sebastian has not.

This team order policy favouring Vettel aint working and its time to let those guys just race. Someone is probably whispering to the chief at FIAT that the mistakes are being deliberately done to hinder LeClerc

 

[Izumi]

Rumor has it, alledged whisper to FIAT notwithstanding, that FIAT and Ferrari are two separate entities, and there is no management lineage. Some people need to get a grip and their facts straight.

 

[Izumi]

Media are really busy replacing Vettel. Newest rumor - Alonso is coming back saving Ferrari from Vettel. Other media advising Leclerc - no more nice guy, Charles!!

I am left wondering sometimes (well, truthfully, all the time), what it is Vettel has actually done so terrible to some of those faceless individuals?

 

[RasputinLives]

Yes FIAT and Ferrari are completely and totally independent. Those are the facts apparently.

Nissan and Renault also completely independent

 

[Izumi]

Yes FIAT and Ferrari are completely and totally independent. Those are the facts apparently.

Nissan and Renault also completely independent

What has Nissan to do with Vettel, as FIAT might have (in re: post 2045)? Publius spend already considerable about of cyber ink on these pages to explain, that any alleged preferential treatment for Vettel is trash promulgated by certain groups.

Besides, Leclerc is not really someone who is taking well any orders spoken to his ears during a race. When he wants and can overtake, he does so, whether pit-wall likes it, or not. Vettel has done it long time ago (once, as act of revenge on what was done to him), Leclerc is new to the team, yet he does it already.

Should Vettel will be replaced, that call is owned by Louis Camilleri and Mattia Binotto, not by FIAT, that is the point.

 

[RasputinLives]

Izumi Nissan has nothing to do with Vettel or Renault. FIAT have nothing to do with Ferrari. Facts

 

[Izumi]

Izumi Nissan has nothing to do with Vettel or Renault. FIAT have nothing to do with Ferrari. Facts

I've never claimed otherwise. I am not sure where did you get the idea that I have. Maybe you should re-read earlier post by another poster, who brought FIAT into this.

 

[RasputinLives]

I'm not I'm just backing you up. FIAT and Ferrari are entirely separate companies with seperate management.......of course that management reports to FIAT Group who owns both the companies (and Alfa Romeo). I mean it could be that was the FIAT that Il_leone was taking about. Also FIAT Group is owned by and directly reports to FIAT Chrysler Automobiles. Hmmmm that could also be the FIAT Il_leone was referring too

Oh my god. Hang on. If you look closely (i.e. put in in Google) you can see Ferrari, Alfa and FIAT are not independent companies at all. They look set up like they have independent management but as they all have the same owners they all ultimately report to the same people! I'm shocked and stunned big businesses would pull a trick like this.

 

[Il_leone]

I think Renault and Nissan will probably end their alliance with the falling out of Ghosn. Nissan will probably want to return back to their japanese ways now. So its only really Renault that would harbour interest in merging with FIAT... yes that would mean more power than Mercedes in the power play for F1 rules to come in

Vettel retiring rumours is really hotting up now

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-...rrari-Fernando-Alonso-Charles-Leclerc-F1-news I would say the source is Marca and being Spanish would talk up Alonso's return

Only Nigel Mansell managed to u-turn his retirement and land himself a better car than Ferrari back in the 90's and become world champion.

Now I just don't see Mercedes telling Bottas to move over for Vettel given how he has driven thus far and even then Toto wants Ocon in one of the cars

I don't see Hamilton budging at the moment unless he has a massive fall out with the management or Bottas and is ostracised which would be absolutely unthinkable at the moment

 

[Il_leone]

Izumi Imagine you have an Empire where the Emperor at the top has not one but many chiefs. Say chief no 1 runs one area say the road cars , chief no 2 runs the f1 team , chief no 3 is responsible for the sporting side , chief no 4 is responsible for the marketing.

So Chief No 2 ( Binotto) tells the Emperor we are just having a bit of bad luck at the moment and my team are working hard at it to improve and the results will come. Give it some time we will be fighting for the championship.

The Emperor then hears from Chief No 1 who tells the Emperor .." We would be doing better if they let the new star Le Clerc show his potential. We signed him and nurtured him so we should not hold him back"

Chief No 3 says to the Emperor " Le Clerc looks more likely to win a race than Vettel does at the moment but every time Chief No 2 issues his team orders policies. We end up losing to Red Bull as well not just Mercedes" Chief No 2 does not know what he is doing and favouring Vettel.

Chief No 4 says to the Emperor " We've had Vettel for 5 years now and he looks further away from being world champion than when he joined us . The guy is getting slower and old , its time to dispense with his services "

There you have the world of Ferrari which is the messy internal politics .

 

[Izumi]

Izumi Imagine you have an Empire where the Emperor at the top has not one but many chiefs. Say chief no 1 runs one area say the road cars , chief no 2 runs the f1 team , chief no 3 is responsible for the sporting side , chief no 4 is responsible for the marketing.

So Chief No 2 ( Binotto) tells the Emperor we are just having a bit of bad luck at the moment and my team are working hard at it to improve and the results will come. Give it some time we will be fighting for the championship.

The Emperor then hears from Chief No 1 who tells the Emperor .." We would be doing better if they let the new star Le Clerc show his potential. We signed him and nurtured him so we should not hold him back"

Chief No 3 says to the Emperor " Le Clerc looks more likely to win a race than Vettel does at the moment but every time Chief No 2 issues his team orders policies. We end up losing to Red Bull as well not just Mercedes" Chief No 2 does not know what he is doing and favouring Vettel.

Chief No 4 says to the Emperor " We've had Vettel for 5 years now and he looks further away from being world champion than when he joined us . The guy is getting slower and old , its time to dispense with his services "

There you have the world of Ferrari which is the messy internal politics .

I think differently from you.

 

[F1Brits_90]

being the lead driver or team manager at Ferrari is always of highest pressure in F1, almost similar to like England team manager over here. in both everyone has an opinion about what you "should" be doing, how they could've done it better & the media will always blow things up if things are going badly.

Alonso would change nothing, you could put Verstappen in that car (my current driver of the season) & I doubt we would get any better results because simply the stategy has been dreadful & made mistakes a F4/ Formula Ford team would be embasrssed about & the car is in comparsion is dreadful whether its the tyres with thinner gauge or Williams problem where the engine masked aero problems.

 

[Il_leone]

Izumi Both Mansell and Prost have both mentioned being at Ferrari you have to be careful because there are many chiefs. Prost went further saying you speak to one manager and you suddenly become an enemy of the others

 

[Izumi]

Sebastian and Hanna tied knot. Long time friends, partners, and now in marriage. It is best news for both after last GP. Congratulations, and happy life I wish to this couple.

 

[Il_leone]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-tells-vettel-he-should-leave-ferrari/

This is the view of Helmut we just have to wait and see

 

[Bill Boddy]

That link seems to have been removed Il_leone. I presume that is not because it was true.