Clip The Xmas 
Ricciardo does continue to prove his mettle nearly every weekend.
Are there any historic comparisons to this situation?
Are there any historic comparisons to this situation?
Head To Head Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
Piquet buggering off in the face of MSC?
I'll say it and be shot down as some appear to revel in Vettel's poor season but whilst Ricciardo has been good Seb has had the legs on him for the last 3 Grand Prixs and has been flummoxed in strategy and mechanical.
I guess when your luck goes your luck goes.
As for the phrase 'Dan is better' I'd say Dan is better in the same way Nico is better than Lewis.
Lets be clear about this - we have seen some great driving from both of them in a car that is basically being powered by a food mixer held together by an elastic band.
In fact I'd like to extend that and say we've seen great performances from all 4 Red Bull drivers as Kvyat and JEV have made that Torro Rosso shift too.
I guess when your luck goes your luck goes.
As for the phrase 'Dan is better' I'd say Dan is better in the same way Nico is better than Lewis.
Lets be clear about this - we have seen some great driving from both of them in a car that is basically being powered by a food mixer held together by an elastic band.
In fact I'd like to extend that and say we've seen great performances from all 4 Red Bull drivers as Kvyat and JEV have made that Torro Rosso shift too.
Vettel bossed again. Lucks into 2nd grid because NOBODY thought there was more time on track and Seb hadn't set a time and then gets thrashed by his team-mate in the race. Even when Seb lucks into an advantage he gets ruthlessly thrashed by Dan in the race. Dan is destroying all of Seb's credibility - a credibility that many didn't think he was worthy of, anyway. It's not that people are revelling in his poor season but that many feel that their previous assessments of him, against the statistics, are now being vindicated. I will say it right now, "I told you so!"
I find it such a shame Ninja that a guy who is so knowledgeable about racing can't see past his hatred for Seb Vettel to actual talk about this subject on a reasonable basis.
Do you honestly believe what you wrote above or are you just stiring the pot?
Do you honestly believe what you wrote above or are you just stiring the pot?
I find it such a shame that you can make a judgement that I hate Sebastian Vettel. I think he is one of the nicest guys in the paddock. I like him and I don't think I have said anything unreasonable.
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Ok Ninja. Whatever you say 
Must show different races in Brazil.
Must show different races in Brazil.
Same ones you watched and I have only been here for two months. I watched all of his championships from the UK. He made a total mince of trying to get past a much slower Alonso today as well. Vettel is cool but massively over-rated as a racer. He has capitalised on golden opportunities and deserves every credit for that, but is he special for having done that? I would argue not. It's how people, and in this case racing drivers, perform in adversity that is the measure of them. Vettel, from my viewpoint has very rarely proven that he has what it takes when the chips are not stacked in his favour.
Yes. You've been trying to prove that one for along as we've posted on here. I don't think anything that actually happens in the races will change your view point.
Are you a creationist by the way?
Are you a creationist by the way?
After six years of observation, it would take a miracle to change my view point. Incidentally, I was just having a discussion over dinner about the ridiculousness of creationism. Very good timing, if not some way off the mark. I am very much an agnostic with a strong faith in objective science. 
For years people have been ascribing Vettel's FOUR WDCs to Newey (the design God). Thsi years has shown that Newey is as human as anyone else, and therefore, that Vettel has been under-rated by many.
His performance this year shows that Seb perhaps has a rather narrow window that he likes his car to be in relating to feel etc. Someone less experienced may have a somewhat broader window. Since I am Australian, I should be deluding myself that DR is showing that Seb has been lucky and take satisfaction from that. Instead, I will hereby predict that next year, Seb will have the RB handling more to his liking and, assuming that Renault have gotten their act together, will once again be a dominating force.
I would also point out that in 1965 Jim Clark, IMO the GOAT, was WDC, the next year, the first for the 3 liter formula, he wound up 6th. Is anyone here going to argue that his WDCs were undeserved and should be attributed to Chapman?
His performance this year shows that Seb perhaps has a rather narrow window that he likes his car to be in relating to feel etc. Someone less experienced may have a somewhat broader window. Since I am Australian, I should be deluding myself that DR is showing that Seb has been lucky and take satisfaction from that. Instead, I will hereby predict that next year, Seb will have the RB handling more to his liking and, assuming that Renault have gotten their act together, will once again be a dominating force.
I would also point out that in 1965 Jim Clark, IMO the GOAT, was WDC, the next year, the first for the 3 liter formula, he wound up 6th. Is anyone here going to argue that his WDCs were undeserved and should be attributed to Chapman?
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You've noted on many occasions this year how poor the Renault powerplant is in comparison to the Mercedes. But now its Newey's design that is the problem? You can't have it both ways. A Merc powered Red Bull in Ricciardo's hands would be pretty potent I presume.
Also, it's no secret that Newey's EBD / Coanda cars were unquestionably some of the, and I say this reservedly, "easiest" cars to drive in F1 history. When drivers like Alonso, Button, and Hamilton are in awe of where their opponent can stamp on the throttle while cornering it really spoke to the enormous downforce deficit they were facing. Given the engine parity during the RBR era, I have no trouble ascribing a great deal of their success to Newey's genius. The fact that Mark Webber was within a wet Korean curb of winning the 2010 title is quite a testimonial to the man's cars as well.
Ricciardo has done an amazing job this season and whatever the reasons he has made Seb look quite ordinary. I was always of the opinion that a top driver could do just that, but I did not expect it to be Daniel.
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sobriety Button is beating his teammate in a poor car and he beat his last teammate in a poor car and he beat his teammate before that and he is ahead of Seb this year who is in a better car than him, so no not like Button at all, but this isn't the Button thread is it?
Anyway I believe people are being a bit to harsh on Seb at the moment but I'll bet Ric's fellow countryman Webber is loving it...
Anyway I believe people are being a bit to harsh on Seb at the moment but I'll bet Ric's fellow countryman Webber is loving it...
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After six years of observation, it would take a miracle to change my view point.
As during those six years Vettel has taken 39 wins, 45 poles, 23 fastest laps and 4 world titles then I believe you are right. It would take a miracle for you to change your view.
Dizzi
Podium Finisher
Don't know about everyone else but I'm rather enjoying seeing a big grin on the podium (without the offensive finger pointing) and enjoying even more the handbags from Seb.
I could never say Seb is a bad driver, he's extremely good as his eventual pass on Alonso and others yesterday showed but he has had the massive benefit of a car tailored to him for the last few years. I agree with sobriety that like Jenson Button when he is comfortable with a car he's a force to be reckoned with but it needs to be a perfect storm.
He's floundering for now because the car doesn't suit his style of driving and he's gradually adjusting to it, it obviously does suit Dan's style and he's making the most of it in an impressive way, I certainly wouldn't rule Seb out of an wins this year.
Rather than put Seb down I'd rather say Dan has upped his game to be a very worthy opponent.
I could never say Seb is a bad driver, he's extremely good as his eventual pass on Alonso and others yesterday showed but he has had the massive benefit of a car tailored to him for the last few years. I agree with sobriety that like Jenson Button when he is comfortable with a car he's a force to be reckoned with but it needs to be a perfect storm.
He's floundering for now because the car doesn't suit his style of driving and he's gradually adjusting to it, it obviously does suit Dan's style and he's making the most of it in an impressive way, I certainly wouldn't rule Seb out of an wins this year.
Rather than put Seb down I'd rather say Dan has upped his game to be a very worthy opponent.
Maybe it has little to do with how good Seb is, and more to do with how good Daniel is.
In all the talk about Seb now being proven not to be a great driver, I find it a little disrespectful to Daniel, who is doing a fabulous job, where very few people were expecting him to do so.
In all the talk about Seb now being proven not to be a great driver, I find it a little disrespectful to Daniel, who is doing a fabulous job, where very few people were expecting him to do so.
