Schumacher, Alonso & 130R

[Road of Bones]

I'm with Mephistopheles on this one - it wasn't "all that" for an overtake. It looked to me like Schumacher was driving at 80% at the time - remember, this was the year of the "wooden Bridgestones", after all. I suspect a lot of people were hoodwinked into thinking it was something awesome by James Allen's hysterical commentary. It wasn't awesome - it wasn't even particularly special

 

[Incubus]

That overtake on the outside was far more spectacular than an idental move being undertaken in 2013 would have been because the corner itself was far more daunting. They would have been at the very limit of exploitable grip back then whereas the corner these days is taken flat-out without any problems in the dry.
Unfortunately from an entertainment point of view it's the same story everywhere else, and corners once called "classic" are becoming less so almost by the year, and are now effectively treated as straight lines by the drivers.

 

[Bushi]

I was quoting a comment from an article in the British magazine 'Motorsport' written by one of their many leading journalists. Just one point the accident Kubica suffered was at a significantly slower speed than the near 200mph of 130R. 130R is one of the last places a driver wants to chance his life.

Significantly slower? He clipped the barrier frontal at 300km/h (186mph), against the 305km/h (189mph) of 130R
When Alonso would have touched Schumi his car or their cars would have slipped away and hit the gravel trap before even hitting the barrier.

Didn't Di Grassi crash his car at the 130R?

 

[Bushi]

Yes he did:

 

[Mephistopheles]

And they hadn't even started the race yet that's how dangerous that corner is.. -Sarcy smiley-

 

[Incubus]

Yes, and since he did not start the race he was officially not deemed to have participated in the Grand Prix.
He had what can be called a metaphysical crash.

 

[teabagyokel]

I suppose the most evident parallel would be Irvine/Burti at Blanchimont in 2001, which while it was not fatal for Lucho, was pretty damn nasty iirc.

 

[Kewee]

Significantly slower? He clipped the barrier frontal at 300km/h (186mph), against the 305km/h (189mph) of 130R
When Alonso would have touched Schumi his car or their cars would have slipped away and hit the gravel trap before even hitting the barrier.

Didn't Di Grassi crash his car at the 130R?

Give me a break!!!!!!! That was Di Grassi's sighting lap. Look at the damage to his car and imagine the result at racing speed.
I'm not sure why so many are playing down 130R, the drivers have always considered it one of "THE" corners in F1, one of the few corners left in the sport where a driver can truly show something special by lifting his head out of the trenches and survive.
Current technology has blunted its challenge no doubt. It will be interesting to see how next years cars and drivers will cope, my bet is only the best will be able to take it flat.

 

[Bushi]

That Di Grassi part was totally irrelevant to your post Kewee .

 

[Mephistopheles]

Here's a list of the top 10 corners in F1 and the 130R isn't even mentioned I'm sure you can find lists that do include it Kewee but if it is soo great then it would be on everyones list wouldn't you agree?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/23/ten-best-corners-in-formula-1/

 

[teabagyokel]

That's just an unbelievably poor piece of reasoning.

 

[Bushi]

It could be more interesting with next year rules, but right now it's nothing special anymore. It's almost the same with eau rouge, with the aero and electronics of last years cars, it was just to easy for the drivers to go through.

I really hope it will be different this year.

 

[Kewee]

Bushi it was you that bought the Di Grassi accident into the discussion, including posting a clip and in doing so appeared to suggest that a driver could have an accident at 130R with minor consequences, I simply responded to that.

 

[Kewee]

Here's a list of the top 10 corners in F1 and the 130R isn't even mentioned I'm sure you can find lists that do include it Kewee but if it is soo great then it would be on everyones list wouldn't you agree?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/23/ten-best-corners-in-formula-1/

I'm happy to let the drivers be the judge on this topic. I don't think I've read a drivers list but I do know that most of the top drivers used to talk of Eau Rouge and 130R in the same breath. In the days of the V10's only the very best could take either of them flat, if their entry was spot-on. Many of the corners on the list you posted may well be even more challenging in many ways, but the consequences of getting it wrong in terms of physical hurt are near zero in many on your list. Thumping the barrier hard at Cassino can hardly be compared with riding a wheel at near 200mph at 130R which is why the drivers love it's challenge, there's a price to pay if you get it wrong.

 

[Fenderman]

What's the question here? Is it about which turns in F1 tracks are more risky than others, which ones are the biggest challenges to get right, which turns are most exciting or which are the scariest or simply the most fun? Or is it about the best being the ones that combine all of that? As ever it's subjective and hacking through the tightly confined streets of Monaco at a ton is probably as scary and life threatening as doing twice that on a circuit with lots of run-off.

Like most of the great corners of the past Eau Rouge and 130R have now both been neutered by the creation of their large run-off areas. Nevertheless they are no doubt still two cracking good challenges and fun for the drivers. IMHO, pulling off a clean pass on a close competitor on either turn is an exhibition of opportunism, guile, skill and bravery, period.

 

[Incubus]

Quite right Fenderman .
Even though corners like Eau Rouge have been neutered because it's now taken at full throttle, any overtaking move there such as the Alonso/Webber passes on each other in successive years, or Kimi on Schumacher are pretty breathtaking because there really is room for one car only through the Raidillion. One of them has to back off before the turn because two into one won't go there.

As for this thread's subject matter, the simple fact we can have these debates about one single overtake at a race that took place some nine seasons ago suggests it was memorable.

 

[Bushi]

Not that alone the power/aero ratio is just to 'safe'.
Give them more power and less downforce and than let's see.

There wasn't much else to see in 2005 Incubus , except for the race in Suzuka......ooh and the Alonso/schumacher battle at Imola, or that can be a year later, i think it happened twice though.