Qualifying restructured

[Wombcat]

They're a week late. April fools was last week.

I didn't expect common sense in F1.

 

[Andyoak]

Will there be calls for change if going back to 2015 has a really dull race after?

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I was actually quite looking forward to another farcical qualifying session, especially seeing how bad the aggregate format could be. I almost wish they'd try them just to prove a point.

 

[teabagyokel]

So my most heartfelt congratulations to Messers Todt and Ecclestone, who backed a crap system, made themselves look like pricks, made the teams look like a cogent unit working for the good of the sport (quite some achievement that) and then caved. High-fives all round.

 

[Il_leone]

Do Todt and Bernie have twitter accounts



The Teams

 

[sushifiesta]

Logic finally prevails. I have this sneaky feeling that Q1 and Q2 may suddenly seem a bit quiet but at least we'll have action at the end of each session again!

 

[F1Brits_90]

I was out tonight at premier league darts & stunned (but happy) that we have reverted back 2015 qualifying. Because of the ongoing power struggle. I thinking earlier that it wouldn't surprise me if this shocking elimination qualifying was still here when we are crowning our World Champion in abu dhabi. Because the 11 teams are playing hard ball with bernie 2015 qualifying or nothing & FIA/todt/bernie dont want to lose face & they were wrong. This stalemate looks like it will go on for a long while because we know of bernies negotiation skills in blinking contest bernie never blinks 1st & relationship could only deteriorate

 

[Il_leone]

I think for once Bernie has to listen to the real fans not his corporate buddies

 

[jez101]

There some very small print to this agreement, I'm sure. Is the bookies open on what Bernie and Jean get as the quid pro quo Greenlantern101?

Common sense? For the good of the sport? Democratic decision? What the fans wanted?

Rubbish.

They didn't just break the habit of a lifetime.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I have to agree jez101. I've read this about Bernie on a couple of occasions from those who deal with him. He has in the past used seemingly trivial fights to cover a wider strategy. Peter Warr talks about in his book saying that the teams would all disagree over a proposal, Bernie would claim to mediate by suggesting something that everyone agreed was awful and before you knew it the teams had all agreed that the original idea on the table was much better and they signed up to it.

 

[TR]

I was actually quite looking forward to another farcical qualifying session, especially seeing how bad the aggregate format could be. I almost wish they'd try them just to prove a point.

You might just get your wish at the end of the season. Apparently that is what the teams offered, the willingness to test some new qualifying formats at the end of the season if the the championship has decided with races to go.

 

[F1Brits_90]

what i dont get is why dont we try some qualifying formats in GP2, out of the glare of the big because in britain the viewing figures are around 3/3.5m combined but on skyf1 you probally got 40,000 viewers. have a different system for GP2/GP3 every weekend & see if there is a better system could have
gp2 q1 & q2 knockout then Q3 1 lap qualifying/ gP3 1 lap qualifying
gp2 2015 session but with agg qualifying & Gp3 - elimation with 2015 Q3
Gp2 FE system - Gp3 heat races & final
etc others i cant think of then

 

[The Artist.....]

I remember reading an article several years ago asking the question of why we expect overtaking in F1 when we arrange the cars from fastest to slowest. Frankly, the idea of lining the cars up like this is a little like running football training sessions, and judging the quality of the squads, and then, say, giving Manchester United a 2 goal start when playing sides like Aston Villa...

 

[TR]

what i dont get is why dont we try some qualifying formats in GP2, out of the glare of the big because in britain the viewing figures are around 3/3.5m combined but on skyf1 you probally got 40,000 viewers. have a different system for GP2/GP3 every weekend & see if there is a better system could have
gp2 q1 & q2 knockout then Q3 1 lap qualifying/ gP3 1 lap qualifying
gp2 2015 session but with agg qualifying & Gp3 - elimation with 2015 Q3
Gp2 FE system - Gp3 heat races & final
etc others i cant think of then

Formula 1 differs from GP2/3 in fundamental way in that all teams drive different cars. The inherent performance difference between the cars is one of the driving reasons behind the attempts to shake up qualifying. For this reason something that would work in GP2/3 might not work in F1 and vice-versa.

 

[TR]

I remember reading an article several years ago asking the question of why we expect overtaking in F1 when we arrange the cars from fastest to slowest. Frankly, the idea of lining the cars up like this is a little like running football training sessions, and judging the quality of the squads, and then, say, giving Manchester United a 2 goal start when playing sides like Aston Villa...

This is a good point. However, keep in mind that you would not do the opposite in football either (i.e. give aston villa a 2 goal advantage over Man. U. at the start of a game to keep with your example). In formula 1 however, you are sort of forced to do one or the other, because the cars have to start in some order. (Unless you want to run time trials.)

I tend towards wanting to keep the advantage away from the drivers that are already the most likely to win because they have a better car.

I think it is somewhat sad, that in the far majority of the races I have seen over the last two decades the race has been one by a driver that has not overtaken any other cars on track. Somehow formula 1 has devolved into the art of avoiding other cars on track. (and the cars are developed with that in mind.)

 

[F1Brits_90]

Formula 1 differs from GP2/3 in fundamental way in that all teams drive different cars. The inherent performance difference between the cars is one of the driving reasons behind the attempts to shake up qualifying. For this reason something that would work in GP2/3 might not work in F1 and vice-versa.

I think the logistics of the qualifyin would still be same. you would be able to see how it plays out gp2 (more than gp3 with the harder tyres) would be good comparison as it has similar degrading tyres. You would be able to see the pros & cons of a elimination, aggregate or 1 lap qualy system & whether it would work in f1 before we showed it to the world

 

[FB]

Given the cars have to be on track for the whole of the race why can't the FIA simply mandate that the cars must be on track for the whole of the qualifying session? They then have to choose tyres which would last for the entire session but as the fuel burns down the tyres would no longer be at their best when the cars are at their lightest. This would mean the drivers have to learn some new skills controlling tyre wear.

They could still have a 3 session knock out system with anyone not being on track for the entire session automatically being eliminated.

 

[RasputinLives]

I remember reading an article several years ago asking the question of why we expect overtaking in F1 when we arrange the cars from fastest to slowest. Frankly, the idea of lining the cars up like this is a little like running football training sessions, and judging the quality of the squads, and then, say, giving Manchester United a 2 goal start when playing sides like Aston Villa...

No sorry that analogy is a bit simplistic. F1 is a race. It's about who can do the distance fastest. It's not about overtaking, it's not about 'making things fair' it's a race. Qualifying is exactly the same as in sprinting where the winner of the semi finals get the centre lanes and not the outside of inside tight ones.

The reason we have one team/car running away at the front is nothing to do with qualifying at all. It's to do with the lack of testing and teams not being able to compete on a even level due to the financial rewards.

Again any fundamental change of the rule 'fastest first' completely changes the sport and we're in WWE territory again.

 

[Wombcat]

No sorry that analogy is a bit simplistic. F1 is a race. It's about who can do the distance fastest. It's not about overtaking, it's not about 'making things fair' it's a race. Qualifying is exactly the same as in sprinting where the winner of the semi finals get the centre lanes and not the outside of inside tight ones.

Not exactly, because in sprint races in athletics, they still have to travel the same distance. The guy in lane 8 doesn't have to run longer or has another disavantage at the start.
It's more like the starts in Cyclecross, where the faster riders get on the first row, and the slower on the back.

Due to limited space there are not really other options. Or you should do as in the sprint in athletics, and not start with 20 cars, but just 4 and postition them side by side at the start. Then it would be exactly like in the sprints in athletics.

 

[Incubus]

WEll technically and historically an F1 Grand Prix, all two hours of it, is considered a sprint race already anything above 600 miles' distance or so is considered endurance.