New engine regs cast in stone.

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Here's a lovely link showing various pictures of the installation of the BMW engine in the BT50 (if you click back there are pictures of engines in F1 cars through the ages)

http://users.telenet.be/aerogi/Racing/Reference Pics/1982_Brabham BT50/Brabham BT50.htm

You may well be right about how the engines were installed Griz. I thought one of the beauties of the DFV was that it was a stressed member within the car design and I can't imagine GM compromising his car design with the BMW engine. The BT50, although similar to the BT49, was a new chassis design.

On other 4 cylinder turbo's I do know that the Hart turbo Toleman used had to sit in a space frame as it was strong enough to be a stressed part of the car. I can also see the logic that a V6 is easier to balance in the car design simply from a symmetry POV. The BT50 was a bit odd as there was a radiator on one side of the car and and an intercooler on the other, an exhaust manifold on one side and the turbo charger and inlet manifold on the other. But I'm not expert on these things, just an interested observer.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor

According to an article in The Independent, Bernie has now said that he might have to sue the FIA over the engine revs limit, saying that the sound of a V6 limited to 'just' 15,000 rpm might put fans off to such an extent that it leads to a loss of revenue with the circuits not being able to sell enough tickets to pay their fees to FOM him.

You couldn't make it up.

What's with this obsession with ridiculously high revs anyway? Are the following not 'true' F1 engines:
Coventry Climax: 2.5 litre 4 cyl inline, 6,750 rpm
Coventry Climax: 1.5 litre V8, 8,500 - 10,500 rpm
Ford Cosworth DFV: 3 litre V12, 9,000 -12,000 rpm
Honda RA166E 1.5 litre V6 turbo, 12,500 rpm
Honda RA121E 3.5 litre V12, 13,000 rpm

Or what about this; not an F1 motor admittedly, but just about the most evocative engine sound one can think of:
Rolls Royce Merlin: V12, 27 litre 3,000 rpm
 

Andyoak

Race Winner
Yep, I just saw that on MSN and couldn't believe it.
We can only hope its that old Bernie trick of stirring up an arguement to keep interest going mid-season. He's still just a glorified hawker...
Shame he doesn't recognise that all his politik-ing turns people off F1 faster than any imagined loss of noise will.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Why can't we just get the V12s back as they sounded so much better. Then just set up a scheme to increase the efficiency of all the infrastructure that F1 uses, e.g. the transport planes. Not only would this please the fans it would save more fuel overall and everyone's a winner, well except the manufacturers.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I've posted this elsewhere before but it's worth posting again. When the original ban was announced on Turbo engines, the head of Honda commented that it was a very dissapointing decision by the FIA because it was far cheeper to control engine power by the use of the boost pressure valve than by trying to restrict teams in the quest for power through revs. As always in F1, the more something changes the more it stays the same.

Bernie really is the ultimate player of games, his new stance on turbos is in stark contrast to the early 80s where on the one hand he championed the FOCA teams who were still running the DFV against the "Grandee teams" with their turbos while on the other hand seeing the way the wind was blowing and arranging the highly fruitful partnership with BMW.

There is much speculation in this months Motorsport that Bernie is trying to undermine Jean Todts position and this could be an extension of that. To be honest, who the hell knows in F1?

EDIT* Interestingly, Keith Duckworth (He of Cosworth fame) submitted an idea to the FIA in the early 80s to limit engine power and control costs while allowing some degree of design freedom by producing a device that meant that all engines injected the same amount of fuel in to the cylinder per cycle. This meant that teams could use a V8, V10 or whatever but all engines would inject exactly the same amount of fuel on each stroke.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
How can you improve the transport planes.All of the cars are flown by DHL on chartered planes by FOM.
All of the cars and 400 tonnes of equipment goes on 5 747's.
So how do you propose to improve on that.
Race personell travel on ordinary commercial flights so how can you change that.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
How can you improve the transport planes.All of the cars are flown by DHL on chartered planes by FOM.
All of the cars and 400 tonnes of equipment goes on 5 747's.
So how do you propose to improve on that.
Race personell travel on ordinary commercial flights so how can you change that.

Admittidley I didn't give it much thought but not everyone travels on the same planes and therefore seats are wasted etc. But TBH I think you've got me there haha.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
EDIT* Interestingly, Keith Duckworth (He of Cosworth fame) submitted an idea to the FIA in the early 80s to limit engine power and control costs while allowing some degree of design freedom by producing a device that meant that all engines injected the same amount of fuel in to the cylinder per cycle. This meant that teams could use a V8, V10 or whatever but all engines would inject exactly the same amount of fuel on each stroke.

In a way that is being implemented in the new engine regulations.The cars will be fitted with fuel flow limiters.Added to which fuel consumption will be reduced by 35% by this method.
Currently the cars on average start the race with a 160kg fuel load.This varies obviously according to the track characteristics.
This will require some very innovative development by engineers to reach these figures.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Two words - Direct Injection. That’s a chunk of potential saving straight away.

Agreed Griz.And IF the FIA do finally accept that F1 is the pinnacle of technology and allow VVT and laser ingnition then its a different proposition.
 
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