Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests

[RasputinLives]

The result was as I expected. FIA can't afford to piss off Merc.

Are we now suggesting though that the data gained from a test with your number 1 and 2 driver is the same as a test with some kids you've stuck in the car for the first time.

Can't help but feel if this had been Marussia they'd have been kicked out.

 

[pirateplunder]

The tribunal found in mitigation that:

• There was no intention by either Pirelli or Mercedes to gain "any unfair sporting advantage"

• Neither Pirelli not Mercedes acted in bad faith

• Pirelli and Mercedes "disclosed to the FIA at least the essence of what they intended to do in relation to the test and attempted to obtain permission for it; and Mercedes had no reason to believe that approval had not been given"

• The action of FIA race director Charlie Whiting, who had indicated the test would be permissible, were "taken in good faith and with the intention of assisting the parties and consistent with sporting fairness"

The tribunal said it was "unable to express any opinion" as to whether testing carried out by Ferrari with a two-year-old car in 2012 and 2013 was "properly authorised". But it said it was "equally unsatisfactory" that Whiting had given his consent to this even though the tribunal "had no evidence before it which indicates his opinion had in fact been wrong".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22999260

Its all happy families, but exactly what Merc needed to save face. If theres any validity in the component testing claims Ferrari should also be banned from the Young Drivers Test. Actually they should be hit with a 151c charge, but that wont happen and Mercedes wont mention it again.

 

[GeoffP]

Fair enough....

 

[Brogan]

Another F1 farce from start to finish.

As usual due to poorly written rules and everyone involved unable to interpret them.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

So after all the fuss they get a rap on the knuckles and a ban from a young drivers test. I would say that Mercedes got off quite lightly. I bet Christian Horner is not very happy at the moment.

 

[siffert_fan]

Given the "severity" of the punishment, I now expect Red Bull to be clamoring to be the next team that gets to tyre test.

 

[pirateplunder]

And the idea of being excluded from the young drivers test came from Mercs own lawyers. When the dust settles its the FIA looking stupid/incompetent/impotent?

 

[Brogan]

No change there then.

 

[Tuscan1969]

Its all FIA's fault - they agreed two sets of rules (1 for Pirelli and 1 for the F1 teams) that are not compatible ;

a) How can Pirrelli usefully test tyres unless its got a representative car and

b) how can any team offer a representative car without being in breach....

Muppets the lot of them....

 

[Incubus]

The ironic thing is. while this is no good for Pirelli, all this exposure is actually brilliant for Formula One as a brand, where there really is no such thing as bad publicity.
For months now the controversy was mentioned in general news bulletins. Millions of people who have no interest in motorsport saw about it in the news, along with current affairs and everything else. Wondered what it was all about. Got a glimpse of whatever product had their logos displayed on footage from the cars or press conference rooms. Brand awareness. That's what it's all about for the general public.
There really is no such thing as bad publicity when it comes to F1. Dream stuff for Bernie.

 

[tranquility2k9]

The result was as I expected. FIA can't afford to piss off Merc.

Are we now suggesting though that the data gained from a test with your number 1 and 2 driver is the same as a test with some kids you've stuck in the car for the first time.

Can't help but feel if this had been Marussia they'd have been kicked out.

I personally believe that if Mercedes now in hindsight had the choice of running either the private test they did with Pirelli or the Young Drivers Test (YDT) then they would choose the YDT. Their private test with Pirelli spanned 3 days only because of bad weather. They were using all sorts of random tyres and therefore any kind of information they could have gained would be very unreliable. Although at the YDT they would not be able to use their main drivers, Sam Bird is after all one of their test drivers so surely he will be a good measure compared to the simulator and they would get 3 full days of running where they know exactly what tyres they have on and can therefore do proper and reliable aero testing, etc.

The point I'm making is that for this season at least Mercedes I believe will have a net disadvantage compared to their main rivals as they are now missing the YDT, at least for aero, mechanical and tyre development related to this current championship. Whether they gained any kind of useful information for 2014, we'll never know. I do not believe Mercedes tried to "cheat" and I very much doubt Pirelli would be stupid enough to let them do so during their private test.

As usual it's the FIA that either within their own regulations or actions have caused another farce for F1.

 

[ramilas1]

And the verdict is.....
.....
drum roll
.....
shot of Simon Cowell looking smug, as normal, 'cos he knows the verdict
.....
scary music
.....
shots of Pants and Dec making stupid faces
.....
more scary music
.....
shots of families and friends in group hug
.....
about as clear as muddy water,
mixed with a tossed salad,
followed by an Eton Mess.

 

[ramilas1]

........ and they would get 3 full days of running .......

You do know that this test is at Silverstone
- and you expect three full days
- in England, in the summer, in the middle of Wombledon.

ARE YOU MAD????????????????????????????????

Mercedes offered up their own penalty, allegedly, so they know better.

Now; will the penalty carry over if it pisses down for three consecutive days in Northamptonshire in July?

 

[Bill Boddy]

No KekeTheKing I wasn't aware of a tyre test involving Ferrari last year, but then there are many things of which I am not aware. I gather though that it was run under FIA rules and that the FIA approved it. More than can be said over the Mercedes debacle.

I see that the FIA have stamped their authority on the sport. No-one will ever transgress again. Personally I would not be sorry if there were no major manufacturers in F1, they come and go without any loyalty to the sport at all. Give me a Frank Williams any day.

 

[RasputinLives]

I personally believe that if Mercedes now in hindsight had the choice of running either the private test they did with Pirelli or the Young Drivers Test (YDT) then they would choose the YDT. Their private test with Pirelli spanned 3 days only because of bad weather. They were using all sorts of random tyres and therefore any kind of information they could have gained would be very unreliable. Although at the YDT they would not be able to use their main drivers, Sam Bird is after all one of their test drivers so surely he will be a good measure compared to the simulator and they would get 3 full days of running where they know exactly what tyres they have on and can therefore do proper and reliable aero testing, etc.

The point I'm making is that for this season at least Mercedes I believe will have a net disadvantage compared to their main rivals as they are now missing the YDT, at least for aero, mechanical and tyre development related to this current championship. Whether they gained any kind of useful information for 2014, we'll never know. I do not believe Mercedes tried to "cheat" and I very much doubt Pirelli would be stupid enough to let them do so during their private test.

As usual it's the FIA that either within their own regulations or actions have caused another farce for F1.

I'm sorry if this comes over as aggressive but thats horse poo. Are you really trying to convince me that Merc would be better off having Sam Bird do 3 days testing than Rosberg and Hamilton? Are you really suggesting both drivers won't have learnt more about the care they are driving from prolonged sessions that they can take and use driving in the actual GPs?

You seem very focused on data(do you work at the Mclaren control centre) and complety oblivious to the fact that more time driving the car for the drivers means they'll learn more about how to adapt their driving style too it.

 

[Greenlantern101]

Feel a bit sorry for Sam Bird. He was meant to be getting a run in the Merc at the young drivers test. He has been looking good in the GP2 and deserves it, real shame he is not getting any F1 time. Hopefully another team will acquire his services for the young drivers test. Fingers crossed.

 

[KekeTheKing]

There are so many levels to this decision. I'm not sure that too many people have an actual grasp of the entire picture here, and I certainly wont claim to be one of them. But I do feel fairly certain that there are other key bits of information that have not been disclosed, and maybe never will be.

With what is publicly know, Mercedes were given a fair ruling, even with all the pre-Tribunal hyperbole;

From JA's blog http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/06/mercedes-escape-punishment-from-fia-international-tribunal/

The Tribunal found:
.......
(3) Both Pirelli and Mercedes disclosed to FIA at least the essence of what they intended to do in relation to the test and attempted to obtain permission for it; and Mercedes had no reason to believe that approval had not been given .
.......

It really is no wonder why Ross was so confident, and would reject a Niki-Bernie-FIA pact out of hand. The bottom line is that Mercedes (Ross) told the FIA (Charlie, and in turn the Legal Department) what he was planning to do and was never once told not to do it.

 

[pirateplunder]

Its also interesting that I haven't seen any kind of ruling as to who ran the test - Mercedes or Pirelli. From the rulings you almost wonder why Mercedes were punished at all. It seems Merc handed the FIA a way out of this with their Young Drivers Test idea and they took it. I saw Horner say yesterday that exclusion from the Young Drivers Test would not be sufficient

 

[P1]

I personally believe that if Mercedes now in hindsight had the choice of running either the private test they did with Pirelli or the Young Drivers Test (YDT) then they would choose the YDT. Their private test with Pirelli spanned 3 days only because of bad weather. They were using all sorts of random tyres and therefore any kind of information they could have gained would be very unreliable. Although at the YDT they would not be able to use their main drivers, Sam Bird is after all one of their test drivers so surely he will be a good measure compared to the simulator and they would get 3 full days of running where they know exactly what tyres they have on and can therefore do proper and reliable aero testing, etc.

The point I'm making is that for this season at least Mercedes I believe will have a net disadvantage compared to their main rivals as they are now missing the YDT, at least for aero, mechanical and tyre development related to this current championship. Whether they gained any kind of useful information for 2014, we'll never know. I do not believe Mercedes tried to "cheat" and I very much doubt Pirelli would be stupid enough to let them do so during their private test.

As usual it's the FIA that either within their own regulations or actions have caused another farce for F1.

Agree. It's stupid to think there is more benefit from testing a standard car with your race drivers on random prototype tyres vs. testing different aero parts on 2013 race tyres with young drivers.

 

[P1]

Its also interesting that I haven't seen any kind of ruling as to who ran the test - Mercedes or Pirelli. From the rulings you almost wonder why Mercedes were punished at all. It seems Merc handed the FIA a way out of this with their Young Drivers Test idea and they took it. I saw Horner say yesterday that exclusion from the Young Drivers Test would not be sufficient

Horner is just being a protagonist. He's saying what is in Red Bull's interest which is he wants his rivals to be disadavantaged by the FIA. Horner hates competition - his dream world would be Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Lotus get thrown out of the championship.