Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests

[Mephistopheles]

I can't find anything that says that Pirelli got unanimous support from all the teams for the tyre test to go ahead.

The letter, reputedly sent out last April by the Formula One Teams' Association and published in The Daily Telegraph, makes plain that a 'tyre test' could only be staged with the unanimous support of all the teams.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...rned-last-year-against-staging-in-season-test

 

[cider_and_toast]

Right, apologies all round then. Reading that again. Carefully and closely, it seems that, the team rocks up with car and driver, fires her up and then says to Pirelli, all yours. Pirelli fit what ever sensors etc they need to the car, run the test, so many laps at such and such a pace, quick lap, slow lap, everybody hand clap etc etc, then at the end of the test hand the car and driver back, sign the accidental damage waiver and it's jobs a good 'un all back to ours for tea and stickies.

I don't think it matters who's behind the wheel from one of Nico or Lewis right down to the cleaning lady or Niki Lauda (providing they both have a International A License of course).

Of course, there is nothing to stop Merc gathering their own data. I presume they would still have data loggers on the engine ECU which they could look at plus there's the all important driver feedback so any test is bound to reveal some information.

 

[P1]

^I agree that something doesn't sound right about the whole thing, but in fairness Merc didn't forget about the no in-season testing rule the FIA contacted them to say Pirelli could do a test with them and using the 2013 car.

My gut feeling is that the reality will be a mess up between Pirelli and the FIA with Mercedes being naive rather than dishonest. The FIA won't take any responsibility so will shift blame to Pirelli and perhaps Mercedes. Its entirely possible that someone is playing some political shenanigans stirring the pot for whatever reason.

The stirring the pot is most likely Ferrari. They love doing that, and Red Bull has been learning from them.

 

[P1]

When reading comments/statements from other teams it seems to become a lot muddier - Ferrari for example add the word 'formally' to being asked to test a current car.



So if they didn't think it was possible, the idea must have come up?

Horner says



which again suggests that some informal requests were made? I've read somewhere else that Redbul turned down a test opportunity because they believed they couldn't use the current car.

To me the issue is becoming more, did other teams turn down the offers to test (formal requests that we know went out last year and presumably Ferrari had one this year, as they tested with Pirelli and infomral requests following up those formal ones last year) because they assumed they couldn't use the 2013 car? But Mercedes decided that they could? Yet the FIA have clearly stated that subject to conditions, the 2013 car can be used.

What is the crux of the issue? That it was a 2013 car, that all teams weren't offered? It seems that using the 2013 car isn't necessarily a no-no. It appears that some level of offer has been made to other teams, but perhaps they assumed it wasn't possible with a 2013 car. Did all the other teams get offered the chance to test when Ferrari did? Did Pirelli suggest using the 2013 car then but Ferrari said no based on their interpretation of the rules?

if Merc are in trouble for other teams not being explicitly given the opportunity to test on these dates then did they and other teams get the same explicit opportunity in Bahrain? If not is that Ferrari's fault? If they are in trouble for using a 2013 car then why did the FIA say a 2013 car could be used. If they are in trouble for doing the test themselves, for not checking the FIA were fully aware etc then fair enough. But then we don't have all the facts about that yet. I still think when you break it down into the component issues its a lot less clear cut.

Sorry to do such a massive quote, but I think this post nails the issue.

Further there was a heated debate about the 2013 tires and whether to revise them in terms of performance or only safety. Since the structural integrity of a tire cannot be measured outside the context of use on the intended car it was reasonable to think Pirelli would do a test with a 2013 car. After all you wouldn't test a tire for a 2013 BMW M5 on a 2001 BMW M5 because it would never experience the correct G forces in testing.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I tend to agree it would make more sense to use a current car but failing that, a 2010 car wouldn't be so different would it?

 

[Dizzi]

If it improves the tyre safety then the test was needed, delaminating tyres are dangerous.
The whole story smacks of teams whinging because in hindsight they turned down a great opportunity.
Ross Brawn's no fool & wouldn't have gone into the test blindly. It's no worse than Ferrari's "shooting an advert" day & the data may actually benefit the whole paddock in this case.
I'd rather know if changes are being slipped through while all the attention is on this storm in a teacup...

 

[The Artist.....]

Dizzi

There is a difference with filming days- as these have to be done on demonstration tyres- which are about as useful as putting concrete tyres on!

The other issue with the safety defence is that Hembery kept insisting that there were no safety problems with the tyres!

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Picture of Mercedes at Monaco with reversed rear tyres. Be interesting to learn if they were doing this before the tests. Other teams were supposedly so that isn't definitive proof of knowledge gained at the test but fairly interesting nonetheless.
http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/05/29/photo-mercedes-with-rear-tyres-swapped-at-monaco/

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Adam Cooper got in touch with Mercedes - they've been trying the tyre-swapping trick since Melbourne.

 

[Jen]

Just to add to the debate, my 'impeccable source' also suggested that the other teams "may well have been invited, but the important bit - in this years car - was omitted".

 

[sushifiesta]

What on Earth do they gain by putting the tyres on the wrong side? I didn't even know there was a difference! Or is this just for when putting used tyres on the car, i.e. putting the more heavily used tyre on the side that gets less punishment?

 

[The Artist.....]

sushifiesta

Apparently Pirelli may have got their sums wrong, and whilst the tyres are designed to go in one direction, they seem to work better if they rotate the opposite direction! It may even be the switching of tyres that helps/ causes the delaminations!

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Apparently the reversing tyres trick only works with the steel-banded tyres, not the kevlar ones which are going to be reintroduced for Canada. However not all teams have managed to get the trick to work properly. This trick is one, possibly the largest, reason why some teams are unhappy at the change of tyres back to kevlar-banded ones as were used last year.
A picture has been found of a Merc with reversed tyres at Melbourne so it seems they didn't gain from testing this method uniquely at the Barcelona tyre test.
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/media_images/2013-03-15/racepictures_1363344846.71.jpg

 

[snowy]

The interesting part of the reversing revelation is that some teams
might actually have designed their car to take advantage of it!

 

[Brogan]

not the kevlar ones which are going to be reintroduced for Canada.

No they're not: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/2013...fying-race-discussion.6259/page-2#post-200546

 

[Kewee]

Apparently the reversing tyres trick only works with the steel-banded tyres, not the kevlar ones which are going to be reintroduced for Canada. However not all teams have managed to get the trick to work properly. This trick is one, possibly the largest, reason why some teams are unhappy at the change of tyres back to kevlar-banded ones as were used last year.
A picture has been found of a Merc with reversed tyres at Melbourne so it seems they didn't gain from testing this method uniquely at the Barcelona tyre test.
http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/media_images/2013-03-15/racepictures_1363344846.71.jpg

The Kevlar banded tyres are last years construction. The FIA have made it 100% clear, Pirelli are not allowed to revert to last years tyres.

 

[Brogan]

Actually that is the cause of the delaminations so they will be reverting to the kevlar.

It's the compound they aren't permitted to change.

 

[The Artist.....]

Brogan

Pirelli say they are going to revert to the Kevlar belt. However, they have also made clear that the delaminations are not safety issues; as such, they are not allowed to change back to the steel belt.... Unless, it really is a safety issue, and they're not admitting it....

 

[Brogan]

It's all very farcical.

Typical for F1.

 

[Brogan]

Button's view.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...et-a-slapped-wrist-for-their-part-in-Testgate