Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests

[Galahad]

I wonder how willing they would be to let another manufacturer rebadge Pirelli tyres as their own next year, provided the right financial inducements were in place. It is getting late in the day for someone new to get their act together, particularly since neither Bridgestone nor Michelin are likely to be too interested.

 

[canis]

I think there needs to be a clarification to this discussion. The use of this years car was not illegal as such. Pirellis contract clause allows them to conduct an invitational 1000km test using current cars under certain conditions. The fact that these conditions may or may not have been met is the discussion that is going on. Merc did nothing wrong in using this years car as that was the intention of this contractual clause.

The big issue here is whether all teams were invited. If they were under the terms of the contract (remember that if the wording is bad, having invited them last year may still apply here) then there is nothing wrong. If not then it is Pirellis issue and not Mercs. Merc may get hung out to dry as an example here as I doubt the FIA really want to annoy the only company with any chance of being in place with the tyres the FIA want at the beginning of next season...

 

[Bill Boddy]

There would have been far less of a problem if Pirelli had used a minimum of Mercedes engineers to look after the car, their own driver(s) and had kept the data to themselves. Letting Mercedes do it all was a recipe for disaster.

 

[The Pits]

I think that the issue is that there seems to be a discrepancy between the Pirelli contract and the sporting regulations.

 

[GeoffP]

I wonder what the position is with regard to the Barcelona circuit. Presumably circuits needs FIA approval to stage F1 events, if they did not have reasonable evidence that the session was approved where do they stand?

There is an interesting depth to this one of which the public is only aware of certain "snippets". I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next storm in a teacup that made sure F1 kept the headlines due to scandal rather than as a result of negative tyre press - I wonder at what level Mr Eccelstone is co-ordinating this...

 

[Jen]

Without wanting to do a 'Ninja', I have it 'on good authority' (i.e. a rumour) that Pirelli ran their idea past Charlie Whiting and was given the OK.

If this is true, one has to ask how many times CW has got things wrong in the past?

 

[Brogan]

Charlie Whiting has no authority to override the rules and regulations.

The race stewards have the final say, as we saw at Spa 2008.

 

[Jen]

Indeed, so why would any right-minded supplier/team consult him in the first place?

 

[Brogan]

Something doesn't ring true about the whole story.

When did Ross Brawn and all of the other Mercedes personnel forget about the no in-season testing rule?

I guess we'll find out once the case goes to "FIA court".

 

[pirateplunder]

^I agree that something doesn't sound right about the whole thing, but in fairness Merc didn't forget about the no in-season testing rule the FIA contacted them to say Pirelli could do a test with them and using the 2013 car.

My gut feeling is that the reality will be a mess up between Pirelli and the FIA with Mercedes being naive rather than dishonest. The FIA won't take any responsibility so will shift blame to Pirelli and perhaps Mercedes. Its entirely possible that someone is playing some political shenanigans stirring the pot for whatever reason.

 

[Brogan]

I don't believe the FIA ever said that.
At least I haven't seen anything to that effect.

All of the correspondence I have seen makes it clear under what conditions the testing could be carried out.

 

[Jen]

Given that few in this World do their job properly, it is possible that both Pirelli and Mercedes believed the other's protestation and neither actually checked with the FIA.

It is one thing to suggest a course of action and another to get a definite go ahead. Each relying on the other and both buggered!

Let's hope the consequences won't be too grave.

 

[Brogan]

That entirely depends whether the FIA deem Mercedes were just incompetent or did the test with the full knowledge it was against the rules and subsequently tried to keep it a secret.

I am amazed though the story didn't break sooner.
The circuit is open to the public and they were there for three days.

 

[pirateplunder]

At the beginning of May, the FIA was asked by Pirelli if it was possible for it to carry out some
tyre development testing with a team, using a current car. Within the contract Pirelli has with the
FIA as single supplier, there is provision for them to carry out up to 1000km of testing with any
team – provided every team is offered the opportunity to do so.

Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be
possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver,
and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to
test in order to ensure full sporting equity.

Obviously there are conditions to be met but as we don't have all the facts we don't yet know which have been met, which weren't and whose responsibility it was to meet them and therefore failed in that task.

 

[Brogan]

That's not the same as you implied above.
The conditions are very explicit and without complying with them the team fell foul of the no in-season testing rule.

 

[pirateplunder]

The main clear difference would be the 'with them' i used and 'carried out by pirelli' in the FIA document. Carried out by Pirelli would presumably mean that they dictate what laps are done, to what times, using what tyres. It would appear that some final OK might also be missing, but without the facts I'm not sure thats Mercs fault.

The FIA contact Merc to say a test can be done if this, if that. If the responsibility for those if's is on Pirelli (equal opportunities for other teams etc) then how much of this is Merc being dishonest compared to just naive? Presumably if the test it carried out by Pirelli then its their responsibility to ensure the FIA are aware, its sanctioned etc. Presumably Merc should be checking the paperwork but thats at a much lower level of blame (imo) than whats been talked about before.

 

[Greenlantern101]

Does anyone know if a date is set for the FIA decision on whether this is going to tribunal? Or could this still be dragging on through the Canadian GP ?

 

[Road of Bones]

According to Autosport it can be up to 45 days, so not until after the German GP...

 

[Greenlantern101]

Bloody hell.

 

[Road of Bones]

...so, about as quick as Nico Rosberg was driving at Monaco...
**runs away**