Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Jen]

The waiting isn't the that important - listening and hearing is the important bit especially if one puts aside the driver bias.

 

[racecub]

ooooh I am listening I am. That wasn't a fair comment. Actually Whitmarsh looked really upset at the end of that interview.

 

[F1ang-o]

Whitmarsh is waffling on the Beeb...
Even if he is not lying ...he always looks shifty to me....MO...of course
If i was being completely honest.......... (kimilike)....I would say he is talking GOBSHITE...
He has to cover his back...Lewis must be devastated....as he has been on many occasions since Button joined Macca.

 

[Jen]

ooooh I am listening I am. That wasn't a fair comment. Actually Whitmarsh looked really upset at the end of that interview.

It was a totally fair comment until you edited you original post which read "Not heard Mr. Whitmarsh yet, not on BBC. I wait with bated breath "

Disappointed!!

 

[racecub]

It was a totally fair comment until you edited you original post which read "Not heard Mr. Whitmarsh yet, not on BBC. I wait with bated breath "

Disappointed!!

Sorry not with you I edited the post to save making a new one, because At that moment Whitmarsh came on, so I edited in what he said. I didn't mention any drivers. Anyway lets not block the thread. There's plenty going on at Mclaren that needs discussing.

 

[Jen]

Patently, you don't understand that my comment was in response to the first half of yours. But, hey ho!

I won't block the thread if you don't!!

 

[racecub]

Deal!

 

[KekeTheKing]

I'm not saying McLaren have tried to make a mockery of Hamilton's reliability since announcing his move to Mercedes, I'm saying they've SUCCEEDED!

 

[The Pits]

I believe that Gary Paffett is correct, when he says McLaren have lost both titles this year.

A number of operational errors, strategy calls, and reliability issues have cost them dear. Regardless of anything, they have lost more than enough points to be well in contention.

A few things improved through the season, e.g. pit stops, but these were coming from a low base. It is now at the point where I do not expect both cars to finish the race.

Prior to this season, I would expect the odd error, the acceptance that the team were never one of the most creative but at least consistent, so would rarely mess up big style, but would rarely deliver a masterstroke.

Never having been one to throw the blame around, it is clear that this season has been a serious low point, more so because it has been clear that the car has been there or there abouts for most of the season. It will be interesting to see what changes are made (if any) and what difference these make. Hopefully the design team can do a good job (again, to be fair) to not be let down by the operations.

 

[KekeTheKing]

it has been clear that the car has been there or there abouts for most of the season.

That's the thing though. If not for Hamilton, would we even be saying that? If Button had been the lead driver this season, nobody would be saying that McLaren were there or thereabouts the whole year. There would be no talk of missed titles. The talk would be whether they had the third fastest car or not. It's been obvious since Monaco/Canada/Valencia that Lewis was their only chance for either title, but they don't operate like that, and the only thing clear to me since then was that it has been a great mistake. Now they've lost both championships, and their best driver.

 

[The Pits]

A good point, KekeTheKing I do not disagree that Lewis has been clearly the stronger this season. What we would be talking about if he was not there I think may be different, after all, he was there. In fact, with JB winning in Oz and Belgium, I think this led of itself to the belief that McLaren had the best car.

I am not sure about the rest, I guess it is a point, but to a point. It depends on the view of supporting one driver. Would supporting Lewis over Jenson (whatever that looks like) have lead to the failures in Singapore and Abu Dhabi? would it have stopped Maldonado and Grosjean not hitting him? would it have stopped the fuelling error in Barcelona, or the fucked up tyre stops?

These events have likewise cost them millions in the constructors, and I personally cannot understand any reason why anyone in the team would not be wanting to win that, if nothing else.

As for losing their best driver, I agree, he is their best driver, but there are three sides to every story, and this one I think will be speculated to buggery, with only the tip of the iceberg being revealed until the retirement and autobiographies of those involved.

On the other hand, there are some lucrative book deals, and some compelling reads coming up in the next few years!

 

[teabagyokel]

Here are McLaren's results this year

You will notice that only one McLaren has finished 5 of the last 7 Grands Prix.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

That's the thing though. If not for Hamilton, would we even be saying that? If Button had been the lead driver this season, nobody would be saying that McLaren were there or thereabouts the whole year.

Sad, but true (not sad that i'm agreeing with you but sad that it's true). I'm already thinking that unless McLaren build a supercar next year then I genuinely believe that you'll be lucky to see at least one McLaren on the front row in half a dozen races. Race pace, however, is a different story and perhaps gives some grounds for optimism, but Alonso is showing how difficult it is to win the title having to constantly drive through the field. If one of the top 3 drivers can't do it then I don't see why Button or Perez can. Button and McLaren better hope he doesn't have the early/mid-season set-up issues like this year, otherwise McLaren might find themselves out of both titles by June.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Would supporting Lewis over Jenson (whatever that looks like)

For me, it's not even an on-the-track thing.

You have all-time greats like Schumacher and Alonso who had to have it written into their contracts that they're to be the undisputed number 1 driver in their team. Even though they would rarely need help from their teammates or their team to ensure preferential treatment, it played to their contentedness and peace-of-mind.

Vettel knows that he will receive unabashed support from his team whenever the need arises. Whether it's defending the questionable remarks following Malaysia or Valencia, or for thinking outside the box when faced with a difficult situation in Abu Dhabi.

If just one time this season McLaren had publicly voiced their support for Hamilton after demolishing his teammate in the victory at Canada or being punted off at Valencia, then I believe he would still be driving for them going forward.

 

[pirateplunder]

I'm a life long McLaren fan, never supported any driver in any other team. And I don't just mean the last few years, I'm going back before David and Mika, to the (imo) gorgeous Marlboro colours. Born in the late 70's, with a little bit of middle aged forgetfulness my earliest F1 memories are of Senna and Prost and Senna and Berger.Relative to many that wont be that far back, but just to point out its not as if I started in 2007. My brother in law also works for McLaren as a chassis engineer, just to add to the reasons to support them.

It was hard supporting them through the late 90's, surprisingly easy through the Schumacher and Ferrari years (just annoyance with the Ferrari team, their fans and the fia (although is that double counting?)) but its been really tough the last few years. This year the team has disturbingly under-delivered. I'm really nervous for next year, with stable regulations I suspect many teams will catch up, the appearance of so many reliability issues is concerning and doesn't bode well. Add in the driver line up for next year, well on the positive side they should balance well - what must surely be about the most boring driver in F1 and Perez who seems to be more than a little loose, flattering to deceive earlier in the season. On top of that, I like Lewis, although I understand within the framework of a team he doesn't help himself by being particularly likeable, and aren't impressed with what's happened with him and the team. The ins and outs of it all are unknown to me, but the reality is 3 years ago they had a team led by an exciting 25 year old, probably the most exciting driver in F1, certainly one of the best as well. When next season starts they'll have a 33 year old steadily motoring around circuits being passed at will by the likes of vettel, alonso et al. Like or don't like Jenson (I always thought is ego was bigger than his skill when he started at Williams, Benetton/Renault and then BAR) I don't see how anyone can say now to three years ago isn't a number of steps backwards.

McLaren will be lucky not to finish 4th in the WCC this year, if Grosjean hadn't been playing pinball so much they might be down there already. I have a suspicion it may be 5th next year. I've never not supported McLaren, it would be odd not to - its just a given for me on race weekends, but i have absolutely zero excitement looking forward to 2013.

 

[The Pits]

KekeTheKing that makes sense, I fully understand, although I do not fully agree. I think that little short of winning the WDC this year would have compelled Lewis to stay at McLaren (maybe not even then), I also think that the situation is far more complex than is immediately obvious.

 

[The Pits]

II'm really nervous for next year, with stable regulations I suspect many teams will catch up, the appearance of so many reliability issues is concerning and doesn't bode well.

I think that stable regulations tend to suit the teams with the larger budgets, the big unknown in the last couple of seasons have been the changes to the tyres.

On the second point, I agree.

 

[Brogan]

I believe that Gary Paffett is correct, when he says McLaren have lost both titles this year.

The really sad thing is it's not the first time since Hamilton joined the team they've done this.

McLaren have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot (with a bazooka) and blowing it off at the shoulder.

 

[The Pits]

To be honest though, I personally think this year has been the crowning glory, by a margin.

 

[racecub]

Some time ago on this very forum, a number, quite a small number of members pointed out problems at McLaren and put forward some suggestions as to what might be going on. Things like poor management, poor strategies, poor organisation, poor race to race operations, apparent preference for the less quick driver and isolation of the faster driver. These people were labelled as conspiracy theorists. Reading over the preceding posts, it now seems that quite a large number of people share the same view. I don't really take any pleasure in what's happened at McLaren at all, it's rather sad. As a previous poster pointed out, where has that exciting McLaren that promised so much gone? I would have loved Lewis to stay and achieve great things at McLaren, and he gave it a good shot, five years,but he was so right to leave. The writing was on the wall over a year ago and McLaren did nothing about it. I find it difficult to understand the mentality of allowing this to happen. I don't know what will happen at McLaren next year, but I'm not really bothered, I'm excited to see what will happen at Mercedes.