MASSA?

[Sarinaide]

So if we assume that the smoke screen of "Massa is our man for 2012" and draw conclussion that Ferrari are attempting to replace him, the question is who would Ferrari be looking at for a replacement?

We can almost certainly assume that Vettel, Hamilton and Button are definately not targets so the question is whom?

 

[Sarinaide]

I think Massa's ship has sailed, 3 out of point finishes and 2 DNF's are indicative of a man that really is not driving like he can cope with the pressure he is under, to be so off his teammates race pace clearly prompts Ferrari to perhaps do a little future proofing by assessing just how good the young crop can be.

 

[RasputinLives]

Perez is def the man they have in mind to replace him and he showed why in quali before his crash today but will he be ready is the question. Has been suggested that they'll give Mark Webber a one year contract so they have someone experienced in the car and him and Fernando are great mates so it wouldn't rock the boat but he looks like a broken man to me at the moment as well.

As for Massa - I think Massa is a driver who needs love and since Alonso arrived in the team I don't think he's been getting it. I think Fellipe could probably pick up form and stay for 2012 if his heart was in it but would he be happy doing so. I think he'd be much better of taking a drive somewhere like Williams and attempting to lead them back up the field. I think with the pressure off and a teams support we might see Massa's form come back

 

[Sarinaide]

Perez is def the man they have in mind to replace him and he showed why in quali before his crash today but will he be ready is the question. Has been suggested that they'll give Mark Webber a one year contract so they have someone experienced in the car and him and Fernando are great mates so it wouldn't rock the boat but he looks like a broken man to me at the moment as well.

As for Massa - I think Massa is a driver who needs love and since Alonso arrived in the team I don't think he's been getting it. I think Fellipe could probably pick up form and stay for 2012 if his heart was in it but would he be happy doing so. I think he'd be much better of taking a drive somewhere like Williams and attempting to lead them back up the field. I think with the pressure off and a teams support we might see Massa's form come back

So you reckon Massa and Webber will be able to up there form and appitite if they left. Massa/Rubens could work, but Maldonado is certainly shown potential so if Perez ever moved perhaps Massa to Sauber. I have thought about Mark Webber to Ferrari, it is an interesting thing that, I don't think he is totally as bad as it appears, perhaps just at a team where it is going all Vettels way right now.

On the Massa/Alonso thing, I don't really think that Massa has really risen to the challenge of having an ace driver in the same team as him, his drop off is all his fault, that said he could at least try be competitive and maybe help Ferrari's cause 0pts from 75 is not a good return methinks.

 

[Slyboogy]

I don't see how Webber should get the drive at Ferrari, he's doing just as bad a job as Massa in a much better car, but it will probably happen as Alonso is a good friend of his, Flavio is banging on the doors at Ferrari to replace Domenicalli.

I for one looking at it that way wouldn't be surprised, but Ferrari don't give out one year contracts, and I think they want a solid driver that can compete with Alonso, or a young driver that can learn from him.

I wrote this in another forum -

"I think Massa will stay...don't see anyone replacing Massa, unless it is one of the young guns from the midfield...otherwise I don't see anyone else.
Like when Schumacher was there his team-mates where promising experienced midfield runners, like Alesi, Irvine and Barrichello. In the current field who is there that fits that category? Heidfeld is quite old...the only few guys I can think of are Kovaleinen or Glock, they are experienced...but after running at the back of the field for 2 seasons...will Ferrari even consider them?
I am only judging this on the basis on what happened when Schumacher was at Ferrari and how there was a pattern for the second seat at Ferrari."

 

[Sarinaide]

I don't see how Webber should get the drive at Ferrari, he's doing just as bad a job as Massa in a much better car, but it will probably happen as Alonso is a good friend of his, Flavio is banging on the doors at Ferrari to replace Domenicalli.

I for one looking at it that way wouldn't be surprised, but Ferrari don't give out one year contracts, and I think they want a solid driver that can compete with Alonso, or a young driver that can learn from him.

I wrote this in another forum -

"I think Massa will stay...don't see anyone replacing Massa, unless it is one of the young guns from the midfield...otherwise I don't see anyone else.
Like when Schumacher was there his team-mates where promising experienced midfield runners, like Alesi, Irvine and Barrichello. In the current field who is there that fits that category? Heidfeld is quite old...the only few guys I can think of are Kovaleinen or Glock, they are experienced...but after running at the back of the field for 2 seasons...will Ferrari even consider them?
I am only judging this on the basis on what happened when Schumacher was at Ferrari and how there was a pattern for the second seat at Ferrari."

I think Massa will stay that said I thought Kimi would stay, that said it makes sense to let Massa see out his deal for 2012, then 1] Assess Kubica (physical as he will best case be back next season, and contractual out of contract with renault after 2012) 2] see if any upstart really makes a claim to fame, can a Perez or other show enough upside for Ferrari to say "we like you as our long term prospect"

 

[johnnoble1990]

Hmm...i reckon this will be a big story for next year. Who will get the seat at Ferrari. We didn't have any movement in the big teams last year - other than Heidfeld in for Kubica, but that was obviously for different reasons. I expect lots of movement next year. Schumi will likely leave Mercedes, Webber might leave Red Bull, Massa will likely leave Ferrari and Kubica returns to Renault.

If i had to pick the outstanding driver who deserves a top set it will be Nico Rosberg, assuming Ferrari don't want to give Kubica the seat after his injury. Rosberg seems to be highly underrated and i think given the chance he might even push Alonso. I think Kubica is Alonso's worst nightmare. If he got the Ferrari seat, he wouldn't only push Alonso, he might even better him. We all know Fernando doesn't like teammates who beat him.

Sergio Perez could also be a future Ferrari driver, especially considering he is already in a Ferrari powered car, but i find it too early to judge. The other interesting move could be a return of Kimi Raikkonen. I don't know where he would go, but now Ferrari aren't paying him anymore he might want a return to F1. Kimi in a Red Bull anyone?

 

[Sarinaide]

Hmm...i reckon this will be a big story for next year. Who will get the seat at Ferrari. We didn't have any movement in the big teams last year - other than Heidfeld in for Kubica, but that was obviously for different reasons. I expect lots of movement next year. Schumi will likely leave Mercedes, Webber might leave Red Bull, Massa will likely leave Ferrari and Kubica returns to Renault.

If i had to pick the outstanding driver who deserves a top set it will be Nico Rosberg, assuming Ferrari don't want to give Kubica the seat after his injury. Rosberg seems to be highly underrated and i think given the chance he might even push Alonso. I think Kubica is Alonso's worst nightmare. If he got the Ferrari seat, he wouldn't only push Alonso, he might even better him. We all know Fernando doesn't like teammates who beat him.

Perhaps, then again there is a reason why he has 2 world championships and Rosberg and Kubica don't, at the end of the day a better driver can 1] compete 2] assist alonso, If alonso had what Michael did in Irvine and Barachello a competent and skillull no. 2 perhaps then last season could have been very different.

I don't want to really draw to much on Alonso not liking people beating him, as I believe the McLaren situation was really a total balls up and well before long the entire side was against him, that said he has matured and moved on.

 

[Slyboogy]

I for one don't see Rosberg going to Ferrari either, his father veteod the idea to go to McLaren, why would Ferrari be different? I think staying at Mercedes for Rosberg is the best in the long term, Mercedes have the will to succeed, they have the resources the budget, with Schumacher retiring this year or next year, they will have their utmost focus on Rosberg, it's only time before Mercedes like BMW get to grips with F1 and if they sort out their structure, which they are doing they will be a force to be reckoned with.

Rosberg to Ferrari could either be a great move, or it could be a career ending move...

 

[teabagyokel]

I don't want to really draw to much on Alonso not liking people beating him, as I believe the McLaren situation was really a total balls up and well before long the entire side was against him, that said he has matured and moved on.

There was a reason the entire garage was against him. We've only once seen Alonso compete against someone comparable, and he lost it. It was not McLaren's strategy for him to start making ridiculous and desparate moves in Barcelona and Montreal.

If anything Alonso's unwillingness to be beaten in his team is a compliment rather than an insult; thats what makes him the Champion he is. You cannot have two of those egos in the same place, however.

 

[ATL11]

Must admit I've never rated Massa, accident aside @ Hungary, he's a poor driver, which suits Ferrari, he'll stay for 2012

 

[Jen]

If anything Alonso's unwillingness to be beaten in his team is a compliment rather than an insult; thats what makes him the Champion he is. You cannot have two of those egos in the same place, however.

Sense at last, but I thought this was about Massa - if Massa had an ego, it's long gone and he knows he is on a sticky wicket. He had the hallmarks of a racer and a great talent, sadly, he allowed himself to be mislead and has ended up in the back of the pits.

 

[teabagyokel]

Sense at last, but I thought this was about Massa - if Massa had an ego, it's long gone and he knows he is on a sticky wicket. He had the hallmarks of a racer and a great talent, sadly, he allowed himself to be mislead and has ended up in the back of the pits.

Sorry, I'm off topic. Massa has no ego, no winning mentality. I believe the 2008 Ferrari was better by a significant margin from the McLaren, and all the consequences that statement implies.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Here's a sampling of younger drivers who could likely do a better job than Massa has been since Alonso joined Ferrari:

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/koba...perez-ricciardo-and-the-next-generation.2788/

Trouble is, joining the Scuderia for 2012 could be a career-limiting move for a youngster.

From the crop of Kobayashi, Di Resta, Perez, Hulkenberg, Buemi, Petrov and (possibly) Ricciardo, there is likely three or four future Grand Prix winners and even a future World Champion or two about 5 to 7 years down the line.

But there won't be a single WDC out of that group if they went there as Alonso's Number 2.

They'd be the new Irvine or the new Barrichello at Maranello.

 

[Bushi]

I don't think they will ditch Massa after this year, the guy is a perfect number 2 driver to assist Alonso.
And that's what they want at ferrari.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Bushi,

I wonder if the talk is all one-way (i.e. a Ferrari option.)

Perhaps Alonso likes Massa in the other seat because Felipe' is the Devil He Knows...?

But who is to say that Massa shouldn't try his hand elsewhere?

Wouldn't Massa be better off away from a team that's become increasingly Alonso-centric?

I think the following:

A...Alonso likes Massa as teammate because he can handle him most of the time.

B...Ferrari really need someone who is consistent in the other seat, with the ability to take points off Vettel and Hamilton regularly if the car is capable of it.

C...For Massa's own career, I think he'd be better off elsewhere.

B+C mean that it's time this 10 year partnership decided, mutually, to try fresh blood/fresh air.

 

[Slyboogy]

Where is Massa meant to go though? His stock has fairly devalued....such a shame, I think Ferrari should have kept their line up the as Massa and Raikkonnen, then getting Alonso, then Massa would be his normal self, instead of coming back to unknown territory with being out of the sport and having a new ruthless team-mate.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Massa can go to a number of places. He's won about 10 Grand Prix races and is still in the 2nd tier.

He's capable of more than what Barrichello's done at Williams thus far, for instance. Williams need Maldonado's money and Maldonado has shown some potential...so Massa/Maldonado might be better for Williams going forward.

Renault is another possibility if Kubica can't come back or if Kubica ends up at Ferrari or replacing Schumacher at Mercedes.

Lastly, Santander was coming to Ferrari and Alonso was always going to be coming along with them. It was supposed to be for 2011...but it ended up a year earlier.

 

[Sarinaide]

I can say for one thing, it will get interesting!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I've said it before on other threads; I really can't see Kubica competing in F1 again. The 'confidence' shown by his manager just smacks to me of blustering.

And I believe that Ferrrari will replace Massa early. He may be a good number two driver, but he's currently too far back to be of much help in the Constructors' championship, which is where the teams get their money.

I think Perez is the most likely candidate, but I'd also like to see Hulkenberg in the frame.