MASSA?

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I concur with all that, I have said in the past in particular Alonso had said things that perhaps was over the counter, but I also say that it cannot be a finger pointing reason as to why Massa a competent driver is looking a shell of the man of 2008 and indeed his Sauber days.

I think its because he's not a winner. His car in 2008 was the best, his team-mate disinterested and he blew his one chance. The difference between Alonso and Massa is the difference between the great and the good. In the 2008 Ferrari, Fernando Alonso would have been World Champion.
 
I think Massa has always been inconsistent, frankly. Through out his career.

The one anomaly was the the 2nd half of 2008.

Even in 2008, he had some poor moments early. Namely Australia and Malaysia after which the press were wondering why Ferrari weren't sacking him.

In Canada, Hamilton piled into the back of Raikkonen in the pit lane and then Raikkonen's exhaust went while leading the next race in France. That hurt Raikkonen in the WDC...and Massa was able to claw his way during that Summer/Fall with Ferrari going the wrong way on the front end to Raikkonen's liking.

The championship looked like Hamilton V Raikkonen with just 2 laps to go in Belgium...and then the rain came and Raikkonen had to support Massa's title chances from then.

2008 flattered Massa...and Schumacher did his best to make Raikkonen look poor (Malaysian tyre call for Kimi that shedded his Bridgestones, for instance.).
 

Sarinaide

Banned
I must say it is facinating what the position will be commeth Abu Dhabi and whether there will we indication of Ferrari's intentions moving forward. As I see it the team has Signed its "man" to 2016 first job done, now it is either keep Massa and use the money on radical development on the car and/or technical side or do they look for another driver?
 
Before the rain came on lap 42, the Belgian Grand Prix was:

Kimi leading from Lewis and Massa way back in 3rd...with 2 laps to go.

The rain changed everything and had they finished there, Kimi would have been 3 or 4 points behind Massa in the WDC.

But Kimi DNF'd and then Lewis was penalized and Massa was given the race victory 4 hours after the finish.

Those 2/3 laps widened out the WDC significantly. There was a 14 point (35 points in New Money) swing between Raikkonen and Massa with 2 laps to go in Belgium and following the Stewards decision to take Hamilton's win away.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Massa has been doing a bad job? Granted he isn't been doing the best, but he has had way more problems than Alonso.

He would have been on the podium twice and given Ferrari their first 2 podiums if they didn't mess up his pit stop in Malaysia which put him behind 2-3 runners whom he was ahead of, in China he put in a great performance along with Rosberg, yet the team went a different way strategy wise. Turkey 3 out of 4 his pitstops were over 6s one being his fault the other 2 though you can't say the same, he had the pace in Turkey, but he started 10th. Spain was just an off day like Alonso had in China, in Monaco, he was a tenth behind Alonso, in a track that he says he does not like, he was in the running for 4th but then the incident with Hamilton happened.

To me, that sounds as if he is doing a good job, Ferrari's slow pitstops have cost him several points and their strategy.

Massa has whined to the press like Webber?? I have not once heard him once whine to the press about Alonso the way Webber did.

Massa halfway through the season in 2010 (this being from Turkey onwards) didn't have the upgrades Alonso did, yet he was back on form, he scored consistently just before Hockenheim and just after, after Hockenheim what was he meant to do? He wasn't racing for wins, if he was he had to give over to let Alonso have the points.

As for the Ferrari 2008 car being way superior than McLaren, I think you will find it switched, in hot conditions the Ferrari was faster in cold conditions the McLaren was faster we saw that many times.

Wait until halfway through the season, then give your judgment, after 6 races saying that he has no talent is just ridiculous.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Before the rain came on lap 42, the Belgian Grand Prix was:

Kimi leading from Lewis and Massa way back in 3rd...with 2 laps to go.

The rain changed everything and had they finished there, Kimi would have been 3 or 4 points behind Massa in the WDC.

But Kimi DNF'd and then Lewis was penalized and Massa was given the race victory 4 hours after the finish.

Those 2/3 laps widened out the WDC significantly. There was a 14 point (35 points in New Money) swing between Raikkonen and Massa with 2 laps to go in Belgium and following the Stewards decision to take Hamilton's win away.

yeah and if I'd thought of Microsoft first I'd be a billionaire!

Sorry Ray but Massa put Kimi in the shade from day 1. people forget that after 5 rounds of 2007 Massa was leading the championship and he moved over to let Kimi take the win that secured him his world title - then he really took over in 2008 and 2009. Can argue about if's buts and fatsest laps all you like but Massa is the reason Kimi left F1

Shame he's just not been the same since 2009
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
yeah and if I'd thought of Microsoft first I'd be a billionaire!

Sorry Ray but Massa put Kimi in the shade from day 1. people forget that after 5 rounds of 2007 Massa was leading the championship and he moved over to let Kimi take the win that secured him his world title - then he really took over in 2008 and 2009. Can argue about if's buts and fatsest laps all you like but Massa is the reason Kimi left F1

Shame he's just not been the same since 2009

I think you will find I will have to agree with Ray on this one, Raikkonen from Canada to Spa he got very unlucky, Canada he got punted off certain podium, Magny-cours he had to move over for Massa due to his exhaust broken, Silverstone he could have certianly have won as he was faster than Hamilton in the early stages but the team kept him on worn intermediates where he lost 5-9s per lap, and he was out for around 10 laps with those tyres, yet he stil finished 4th, Valencia his engine failed on him, Spa he had a slow puncture which was why Hamilton and Massa were reeling him in, and it's what caused the crash aswell as he got significant amount of understeer.

I will let Ray do the rest now :goodday:
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think he was pretty lucky to finish 4th at Silverstone, like Hamilton was lucky to finish 6th this weekend.

You could also say that he was unlucky that the team made him stay out on worn intermediates which made him spin twice when full wets where the ones to be on :thumbsup:
 
I don't think Massa's doing too bad a job...but he's not doing an excellent job.

If Alonso's performed at, say, 90 Percent (he was invisible in China and screwed up Malaysia), then Massa's at 80 Percent.

That's not good enough when the likes of Vettel, Hamilton, Kobayashi are going at 95 to 90 Percent...and the likes of Rosberg, Button and Di Resta are going at 85 Percent.
 
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