Mark Webber

I'm a little puzzled as to why Webber doesn't have a page in the teams and drivers section, as Webber is a pivotal figure in the story upfront. There are questions that need to be asked. Why can Vettel win, and Webber struggle to get on the podium fighting Ferraris and McLarens? Why is the man that was noted as a good qualifier unable to get near Vettel? Did the leg break in late 2008 do him serious performance damage? and What should Webber do in the near future?

Mark Webber. Over to you...

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

There's always Ricciardo who had such a stunning () first race for HRT.

I think Ricciardo isn't ready to start Grand Prix races for RBR. I think Ricciardo should be given a chance in Alguersauri's seat and see how he does against Buemi.

 

[Bill Boddy]

From the last three races it might be better to put Ricciardo in Buemi's seat and measure him against Alguersuari.

 

[Slyboogy]

But Buemi has been doing a much better job over the course of the season. Alguersuari got lucky in Canada, great drive in Spain.

 

[FB]

Back on topic - Mark Webber, he said it himself, "Pretty good for a No.2"

 

[Sarinaide]

I read that BBC article and it seems like Mark is on the edge, I really don't think he is happy with the current situation at Red Bull, from his comments about ignoring the "maintain the gap" radio communication, suggests that there may actually be a falling apart at the seams for RB.

Mark Webber still remains key as to whether we have a championship or not, him pressuring Vettel opens up to the others being able to draw in, that said it was Hungary last year that Webber and Vettel barnstormed away from the chasing pack.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I read that BBC article and it seems like Mark is on the edge, I really don't think he is happy with the current situation at Red Bull...
Mark Webber still remains key as to whether we have a championship or not, him pressuring Vettel opens up to the others being able to draw in...

They're about to cut a deal for 2012. Why? Because they know Webber is a fighter! They know Webber can out-qualify and out-race Vettel from time to time and take valuable points off the others. They highly value the WCC and Webber helps in attaining that. He can win if Vettel fails. He did do exactly that at Silverstone and Hungary last year, as an instance or two.

Why would Webber stay? Well, where else could he go and drive a car capable of taking Poles and winning? McLaren are a no go with HAM-BUT and that only leaves Massa's seat at Ferrari...but who's to say he wouldn't be worse off in Massa's seat? At least at RBR he continues to take Poles. [Unfortunately he hasn't converted those Poles this year and can't really blame anyone else for that.] But the opportunities are there.

Lastly, an 'in form' Webber actually might help kill off the others in the championship because he'll make it harder for Alonso and Hamilton and Button to score big points. He's been in form in the past number of races and he actually already has taken points off Hamilton, Alonso and Button.

 

[Sarinaide]

The point I was making is that Mark Webber with his car is almost always certain to be capable of driving Seb into pressure situations, while the Ferrari and McLaren's are not really a race to race certainty. Nobody seems to make much of Seb or know much of Seb's ability to have cars driving up his gearbox for extended periods of a race and the few instances where it has been seen or where experience is needed Vettel has made the mistake. If Webber could take Vettel out of his comfort zone it subjects Vettel then to attacks by the Hamilton's, Alonso's and the like as he won't just be cantering 20sec down the track anymore.

Mark Webber has like Massa through fault of his own allowed the situation to arise where he is considered a de facto number 2 for want of a better word.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

The point I was making is that Mark Webber with his car is almost always certain to be capable of driving Seb into pressure situations, while the Ferrari and McLaren's are not really a race to race certainty. Nobody seems to make much of Seb or know much of Seb's ability to have cars driving up his gearbox for extended periods of a race and the few instances where it has been seen or where experience is needed Vettel has made the mistake.

I understand what you're saying. You're saying that Webber - because he's also in an RBR - is more likely to pressure Vettel into a mistake than the others consistently.

If, however, you look at 2011, it's actually all the others who have put the pressure on Vettel...Hamilton at China (win) and at Spain (very close 2nd and hounding him in the final stint)...Alonso at Monaco and Valencia (close 2nds) and Britian (win)...Button in Monaco (led the race and close 3rd) and Canada (win).

As I mentioned, Ferrari and McLaren can offer their drivers a technical performance advantage against Vettel...but RBR can't offer Webber any technical performance advantage over Vettel (and vice versa)...So, if Vettel's to be put under severe pressure, it'll realistically happen from Hamilton/Button and Alonso as has already happened.

Your scenario of Webber doing it would be possibly only if Webber was consistently as fast as Vettel...but Webber isn't consistently as fast. Honestly, I would love for your scenario to pan out as I like Mark (he's a fighter!) and I would love for Vettel to be pushed further to the edge...but I don't see Mark as being as consistent in his application as the other top Aces.

 

[Slyboogy]

Mark Webber has like Massa through fault of his own allowed the situation to arise where he is considered a de facto number 2 for want of a better word.

Don't think you can blame Massa, his job was on the line hence why he moved over, he ignored the team order several times...eventually gave way (i wonder why )

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Mateschitz LOVES Webber. Mateschitz loved Webber going into 2011(when he refered to the Aussie as "a man of steel")...and he loves him today:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93058

Newey and Mateschitz love Webber. Marko may not like Webber the way he loves Vettel...but it's not Marko's money and it's not Marko's car.

Good for Mark!

 

[teabagyokel]

http://www.unlap.co.uk/t-shirts/formula-1-tshirts/we-dont-have-team-orders-shirt

Here's a shirt for Webber fans...

 

[Slyboogy]

Marko's obsession is with Ricciardo to replace Webber...

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Well, let's see what Ricciardo can do against another Red Bull Academy driver first. Liuzzi.

Red Bull know all about Liuzzi and they sent Ricciardo to HRT to see how he measures up against the Italian.

Red Bull only have had two very successful drivers ever: Raikkonen and Vettel.

Ricciardo has to beat Liuzzi, Buemi and/or Alguersauri first before he can get a sniff of Webber's seat.

 

[Il_leone]

like I said at Red Bull Horner is a just a puppet on a piece of string controlled by Helmut Marko. Whenever Helmut opens his mouth Horner will not disagree with him like the Turkey incident

Webber would be good for Red Bull because the mechanics love him on his side at least and he would be less difficult to deal with than say Alonso or Hamilton as Vettel's partner...Horner's words that two world class drivers don't work well in top teams suggests despite what happened on Sunday they would still prefer Webber

Ricciardo still has some way to go before getting his chance at Red Bull

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

like I said at Red Bull Horner is a just a puppet on a piece of string controlled by Helmut Marko. Whenever Helmut opens his mouth Horner will not disagree with him like the Turkey incident

Aha ha! Some say the pecking order at RBR is Matechitz...Newey...Horner...and then Marko.

It's Mateshitz's money...It's Newey's car. Period...and Horner manages the team. Marko is a fan of Vettel, a product of his academy. So I can see why they're saying that.

An unbiased observer will tell you that Vettel is just faster on average and was ahead in the Grand Prix on merit...And, inspite of Webber being balls-out to the last, Vettel still managed to maintain 2nd. On merit. They'll also tell you that Webber had his chance: He was free to take Pole and took it...but then lost that advantage and fell back by about 9 or 10 seconds in the first dozen laps. They'll tell you that any team would instruct two drivers to hold station with one or two or even three laps to go than risk hitting each other. This is normal proceedure and it is completely different to telling one driver to move over and hand a win to the guy behind (Schumacher/Barrichello 2001, 2002; Alonso/Massa 2010).

Il Leone I think you've conveniently forgotten that the situation was reversed in Turkey in 2009 where Webber was 2nd and Vettel 3rd and Vettel was told to hold station...but I think you already knew that but your built in bias doesn't want you admit it.
Thought i'd mention it for the record, though. Vettel didn't like it...but he kept his mouth shut.

Lastly, i'm 100 Percent certain that RBR would have wished that Webber won the race from Pole for them instead of Alonso winning the race for Ferrari...but that didn't happen. They even provided Mark with two - not one but TWO - undercuts. Let's not forget that!

 

[Il_leone]

Aha ha! Some say the pecking order at RBR is Matechitz...Newey...Horner...and then Marko.

It's Mateshitz's money...It's Newey's car. Period...and Horner manages the team. Marko is a fan of Vettel, a product of his academy. So I can see why they're saying that.

An unbiased observer will tell you that Vettel is just faster on average and was ahead in the Grand Prix on merit...And, inspite of Webber being balls-out to the last, Vettel still managed to maintain 2nd. On merit. They'll also tell you that Webber had his chance: He was free to take Pole and took it...but then lost that advantage and fell back by about 9 or 10 seconds in the first dozen laps. They'll tell you that any team would instruct two drivers to hold station with one or two or even three laps to go than risk hitting each other. This is normal proceedure and it is completely different to telling one driver to move over and hand a win to the guy behind (Schumacher/Barrichello 2001, 2002; Alonso/Massa 2010).

Il Leone I think you've conveniently forgotten that the situation was reversed in Turkey in 2009 where Webber was 2nd and Vettel 3rd and Vettel was told to hold station...but I think you already knew that but your built in bias doesn't want you admit it.
Thought i'd mention it for the record, though. Vettel didn't like it...but he kept his mouth shut.
Lastly, i'm 100 Percent certain that RBR would have wished that Webber won the race from Pole for them instead of Alonso winning the race for Ferrari...but that didn't happen. They even provided Mark with two - not one but TWO - undercuts. Let's not forget that!

I'll admit Vettel is faster but Webber has been having bad luck this season and I am no fan of his..I think he sometimes brings things on himself and makes him look stupid.

Just when Webber thought he could get his own back in beating Vettel Horner took it away from him. LEts remember last season when Webber was closest challenger to Alonso...Horner did not ask Vettel to move over for him in BRazil which would have given Webber another 7pts to close the gap to 1pt for the final race because Horner said he believed in equal drivers policy ...utter tripe
As for Turkey 2009 I remember Vettel's engineer telling him he screwed up making the mistake on lap 1 and ended up in that position. The gap between the two then was not much if I remember and neither established themselves as Button;s closest challenger ...but then you can blame Seb for making the mistake and besides I don;t think he would have gotten past Webber given his lousy attempts at passing steering right

 

[Slyboogy]

Using your logic il leone then Mark webber lost his chance after lap 1 after his own mistake, both situations seem are similar to me. Judging by your last comment you also seem to be a Vettel critic so...

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Just when Webber thought he could get his own back in beating Vettel Horner took it away from him.

As for Turkey 2009 I remember Vettel's engineer telling him he screwed up making the mistake on lap 1 and ended up in that position...but then you can blame Seb for making the mistake and besides I don;t think he would have gotten past Webber given his lousy attempts at passing steering right

A. Webber disregarded the instruction so Horner didn't take anything away from him. [In fact, Horner's going to give him a new contract!]

B. How is your Turkey 2009 paragraph any different to what happened Sunday? Webber screwed up on Lap 1 (he was on Pole, wasn't he?) ... and ended up in that position. And then he didn't get passed anyway in spite of giving it his best.

 

[ecclestoned]

..but then you can blame Seb for making the mistake and besides I don;t think he would have gotten past Webber given his lousy attempts at passing steering right

He can always circumvent(pun?)that problem by passing cars leaving them on his left like he did at the start of Silverstone.

p.s. :I remember you were desperately looking for an avatar some time ago.
Seeing you haven't found a fitting one yet,here's a nice one based on your "username"

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Did you notice how completely bemused Webber was in the post qually media scrum with Louise Goodman?

It took only 1 lap from Vettel to crush Webber's ever increasing push towards some level of parity with his German teammate. Just one scintiliting and virtually perfect lap.

Webber couldn't find the words...other than to ponder just how Sebastian managed to extract a 1:19 handle out of that RB7. It wasn't even close.

I find it interesting that even when Webber is at his very best like he's been in the last 2 meetings (2 poles, same number of points as Vettel) than he can't do much to take a win or carve out some big points from Vettel...yet when Vettel's at his very best, he (VET) extracts wins and carves chunks of points from the Aussie.

Interesting!