Lewis Hamilton - Double Standards?

[teabagyokel]

Having said all of this, we've found it very easy to excuse Lewis for "pulling over" onto Kobayashi, with the claim that the guy behind has the responsibility to avoid a crash. That mantra was not evidenced last year after Istanbul, was it?

Maybe its just that the blame shifts to make a "story". That's how the media works.

However, that Lewis was found guilty of causing a collision with Maldonado is evidence of the conclusion (Lewis' blame) being decided and the evidence being shifted to fit the hypothesis.

 

[RossTheBoss]

This is the way I see these incidents:

Monza 2010: Hamilton at fault, he outbraked himself into the corner (luckily Massa didnt DNF or have damage or he may have been penalised)
Singapore 2010: 50/50ish...although I still think that Hamilton had the corner and Webber should have let him have it and attacked elsewhere. No penalty for either should be given (and wasn't) but IMO Webber risked a lot considering he was fighting for the WDC.
Canada 2011: Very very tricky. It has been done to death but I'm willing to say it was a racing incident due to the conditions. How easy is the McLaren to see in the rain? Either way, I'm not going to put blame on either party, it was just a nightmare scenario.
Spa 2011: Similar to Singapore in terms of no penalties should be given, but I think Hamilton should take the lions share of responsibility as he moved on Kobayashi and Kobayashi had nowhere to go in my opinion. I think Lewis should be commended though to come out and say after seeing it that he was at fault.

There is no doubting Lewis Hamilton is a phenomenal driver, he just needs to cut the silly errors out that blight him from time to time. I also think he is trying too hard this season. I do hold out though when he does mature as a driver he will take some stopping. He is still young remember!!

 

[Brogan]

Monza 2010: Hamilton at fault, he outbraked himself into the corner (luckily Massa didnt DNF or have damage or he may have been penalised)
Singapore 2010: 50/50ish...although I still think that Hamilton had the corner and Webber should have let him have it and attacked elsewhere. No penalty for either should be given (and wasn't) but IMO Webber risked a lot considering he was fighting for the WDC.

So should Webber have been given a penalty then for causing Hamilton to DNF?

If not, there seems to be an element of double standards there as there was no way Webber was going to make that apex without using Hamilton's car as a 3rd brake.

Canada 2011: Very very tricky. It has been done to death but I'm willing to say it was a racing incident due to the conditions. How easy is the McLaren to see in the rain? Either way, I'm not going to put blame on either party, it was just a nightmare scenario.
Spa 2011: Similar to Singapore in terms of no penalties should be given, but I think Hamilton should take the lions share of responsibility as he moved on Kobayashi and Kobayashi had nowhere to go in my opinion.

So Canada is a racing incident even though Button moved on Hamilton and Hamilton had nowhere to go.

Yet when Hamilton does it to Kobayashi (which in itself is highly debatable - watch Keke's video) it's Hamilton's fault?

See the problem?

 

[RossTheBoss]

So should Webber have been given a penalty then for causing Hamilton to DNF?

If not, there seems to be an element of double standards there as there was no way Webber was going to make that apex without using Hamilton's car as a 3rd brake.

I think it was borderline, but from what I remember of that incident Webber was in the inside trying to be aggressive and make Hamilton cede the corner. Wasn't the first incident between the two and I'm sure it won't be the last...

I think it was just some bad luck for Hamilton. If he had DNF'd Massa at Monza however I think he should have been penalised as it was a bigger mistake, he was at fault and unnecessary as it was so early in the race.

So Canada is a racing incident even though Button moved on Hamilton and Hamilton had nowhere to go.

Yet when Hamilton does it to Kobayashi (which in itself is highly debatable - watch Keke's video) it's Hamilton's fault?

See the problem?

I think the conditions in Montreal should be taken into account (Button's testimonies to this). I don't think Hamilton should be penalised for what happened at Spa (if it had ended Kobayashi's race) as he was penalised enough by theDNF and it was a marginal incident which I personally think Hamilton was more at fault for than Kobayashi. I was surprised he didnt see him in his mirrors (another incident caused by the damn mirror?) however..

 

[Brogan]

Q.E.D.

 

[RossTheBoss]

Sorry Brogan not getting you. What's Q.E.D?

 

[Brogan]

Essentially it means your posts have demonstrated how double standards apply to Lewis Hamilton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Monza 2010: Massa didnt DNF
Singapore 2010: No penalty for either should be given
Canada 2011: I'm not going to put blame on either party
Spa 2011: no penalties should be given

he just needs to cut the silly errors

You had me until the very end Ross.

 

[Josh]

The conditions in Canada probably played a role in that incident because of the spray. In Belgium they had no such issues, Hamilton just didn't look in his mirrors. Not saying it's entirely his fault, mind you. Those things happen when racing, and in both incidents it's (pretty close to) 50/50.

Monza was just bad luck, yes he outbraked himself but nothing terrible would have happened if their wheels didn't hit each other at such a weird angle, causing Lewis' wheel to snap off. That really wasn't such a big deal.

 

[RossTheBoss]

Essentially it means your posts have demonstrated how double standards apply to Lewis Hamilton.

I have to disagree with that Brogan. Believe it or not I am a Hamilton fan; he is a breath of fresh air, controversial yes but never boring and certainly not a PR robot! And in my opinion he is the best driver on the grid.

However he is prone to making a silly error (like any other driver). I believe he has been very unlucky when it comes to small collisions and shunts as he always seems to get the worst of it (Melbourne 2010 is another one where Webber SHOULD have got a penalty for hitting him) but he does make errors. I personally believe the Massa crash at Monza was worse than the Singapore crash (although the combination of the two scuttled his title hopes) as he seemed to misjudge his braking distance quite considerably and had no chance of making the corner.

I said the Kobayashi is marginal, it didnt warrant a penalty on either side but I still think Lewis was slightly at fault for that. I think Montreal was a classic case of spray obscuring Button's view of the car behind (happened before with DC and Schumi at Spa 1998, and that one divides people to this day). I don't think it would be fair to say that Button was solely at fault or anyone at fault for that matter. It was a racing incident. I do think that Hamilton has been the victim of some awful decisions in the past (2008 spring to mind) but that was under a different "regime" and I think since then he just hasnt had the rub of the green.

 

[RossTheBoss]

Keke what I mean is he makes the occasional mistake that really affects him more than the others (which I suppose happens to everyone, as he is human). Maybe I just expect him to not make mistakes that he does make?
He has been unlucky thinking about it (practice in Suzuka last year as well adding to that long list of bad luck).
Maybe he should invest in a rabbit's foot or 4 leaf clover?

 

[mjo]

I think people (including myself) are getting too carried away in comparing totally different incidents. For example, the incident with Webber was totally different to the incident with Kobayashi, and that was again different to the Button incident. The circumstances were vastly different, such as the direction of the corner (or in Button's case, the straight) and the relative position of the two cars. Therefore, these incidents should be viewed differently, and therefore nobody should infer 'double standards' as the incidents in question are so different. Yes, I know people will disagree, and I have dug myself into a deep enough hole, so I'm just going to stop digging.

 

[KekeTheKing]

the occasional mistake that really affects him more than the others

I guess that's what really gets my goat. Lewis almost always comes off worse than the guy he has supposedly caused the incident with. Maldonado is the ONLY person that has EVER retired after coming together with Hamilton on the track. Raikkonen was of course stopped in the bizarre Canadian Red Light District.

With the amount of heat Lewis has taken for his incidents, you would think that he's taken off a dozen drivers and escaped scot-free.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I think people (including myself) are getting too carried away in comparing totally different incidents. For example, the incident with Webber was totally different to the incident with Kobayashi, and that was again different to the Button incident. The circumstances were vastly different, such as the direction of the corner (or in Button's case, the straight) and the relative position of the two cars. Therefore, these incidents should be viewed differently, and therefore nobody should infer 'double standards' as the incidents in question are so different. Yes, I know people will disagree, and I have dug myself into a deep enough hole, so I'm just going to stop digging.

Nobody is comparing the Webber incident with the Kobayashi incident. You have your comparisons mixed up. Maybe this is why you see the incidents as so different. You are looking at the wrong ones.

 

[RossTheBoss]

I guess that's what really gets my goat. Lewis almost always comes off worse than the guy he has supposedly caused the incident with. Maldonado is the ONLY person that has EVER retired after coming together with Hamilton on the track. Raikkonen was of course stopped in the bizarre Canadian Red Light District.

With the amount of heat Lewis has taken for his incidents, you would think that he's taken off a dozen drivers and escaped scot-free.

I didn't mean that as a dig at Hamilton Keke, what I meant was he makes the same (or less) amount of mistakes as anyone else and he always seem to pay for it more one way or another.

This is what I mean when I mean Lewis is unlucky Keke. Whenever there is a coming together (whoever is at fault) Lewis always seems to get the worst of it....if its not a DNF it's losing position. People can say what they like about Lewis (they generally do) but in terms of having luck on his side during the races he generally doesnt have it.

 

[KekeTheKing]

You do have to wonder if he made a deal with the devil half way through that Final Lap at Interlagos 08.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

What makes me laugh the most is how everyone is so happy about Webbers overtake of Alonso at Eau Rouge

That was aggressive and oh so brave, Alonso backed off and avoided a nasty high speed bust up

Imagine that had been Lewis and Alonso didnt back off, I reckon Lewis would be sitting in a Belgian Maximum security prison now with a firing squad being assembled

Even if Alonso did back off, I can hear EJ and the other usual muppets almost foaming with the outrage of how potentially dangerous that was

If Alonso had not seen Webber and had moved left slightly causing a crash, whose fault exactly would it have been;

1. Webber for being so aggressive?
2. Alonso for taking a normal racing line and not seeing Webber in his small mirror?
or
3. Lewis, its always his fault even if he wasn't there

Answers on a postcard to the Lauda Show, 22 Muppet St, Austria

 

[mjo]

Nobody is comparing the Webber incident with the Kobayashi incident. You have your comparisons mixed up. Maybe this is why you see the incidents as so different. You are looking at the wrong ones.

What are the 'right ones', then?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Button Hamilton @ Canada vs Hamilton Kob @ Spa

Webber Hamilton @ Singapore vs Hamilton Massa @ Monza

 

[teabagyokel]

If Alonso had not seen Webber and had moved left slightly causing a crash, whose fault exactly would it have been;

1. Webber for being so aggressive?
2. Alonso for taking a normal racing line and not seeing Webber in his small mirror?
or
3. Lewis, its always his fault even if he wasn't there

I reckon they'd have blamed whichever driver (if any) survived.