Clip The Xmas 
Jenson caused the Spa crash with Vettel
- Thread starter ATL11
- Start date
ATL11
Pole Sitter
So with the wings flexing like they did, what would it feel like in the car for Seb?
I know for us it would be buying new underpants....I'm going to die....
But for Seb would it be almost like the front of the car going light, similar to how it feels when you hit the crest of a Hump Backed bridge in road car?
I know for us it would be buying new underpants....I'm going to die....
But for Seb would it be almost like the front of the car going light, similar to how it feels when you hit the crest of a Hump Backed bridge in road car?
Jenson has denied braking early and the telemetry apparently proves it.
Wonder what the next excuse will be?
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=49142&PO=49142
Wonder what the next excuse will be?
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=49142&PO=49142
Just played the footage in-car, frame by frame on my own PC. Seems like Vettel's fault to me:
First he turns slightly left to move out past button.
2 frames later he straightens up.
2 frames straight. He then puts about twice as much left-turn input into the wheel as a moment before, for about 5 frames. He's moved out on Button.
But what throws the back end out is the next right-turn when he straightens to the track (though he'd have been on the grass if he didn't). Then the backend comes out... But he keeps this lock on for about 8 frames - 2 or 3 times longer than the other inputs - before he turn's into the impending spin, except he's now facing Button...
Seems like Vettel's fault. But he deliberately turns twice, the 2nd more violent than the first, and he's clearly much slower on these movements than when he attempts to correct the oversteer. The result of the crash looks to be from Vettel's inputs.
Or in other words, he ran out of talent.
First he turns slightly left to move out past button.
2 frames later he straightens up.
2 frames straight. He then puts about twice as much left-turn input into the wheel as a moment before, for about 5 frames. He's moved out on Button.
But what throws the back end out is the next right-turn when he straightens to the track (though he'd have been on the grass if he didn't). Then the backend comes out... But he keeps this lock on for about 8 frames - 2 or 3 times longer than the other inputs - before he turn's into the impending spin, except he's now facing Button...
Seems like Vettel's fault. But he deliberately turns twice, the 2nd more violent than the first, and he's clearly much slower on these movements than when he attempts to correct the oversteer. The result of the crash looks to be from Vettel's inputs.
Or in other words, he ran out of talent.
I've tried to watch it but not at the speed you have, Vettel just comes across a kid screwing up a move when trying to get his Citroen Saxo to overtake the champ in a Ford XR3i..........
snowy
Champion Elect
In one of the free practice sessions Sebastian came upon a much slower car going into the same turn. The distance he was from this slower car was far greater but Sebastian displayed a rather disturbing lack of judgement in his braking and had to take drastic avoiding action.
His crashes and near misses have all the hallmarks of someone who isn't totally aware of his surroundings...
His crashes and near misses have all the hallmarks of someone who isn't totally aware of his surroundings...
There is a great article here which explains how the wing could pass FIA tests and still flex.
This theory was put forward by Major Danby on here.It looks as if he was on the money.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41889
This theory was put forward by Major Danby on here.It looks as if he was on the money.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41889
Andrea_Moda_Rules
Podium Finisher
hmmm..... amazing how this has caused a few headlines lol. Not like top drivers have never hit each other before is it now hehe. It wasn't as bad as lets say Trulli trying to drive through Chandahok rather then around him.
Now the front wing theory may be a little twist to this.
But one thing i noticed happing a lot this season is how drivers defend the inside line then move abruptly to the normal line before taking the corner.
I think Vettel thought Button might done that, Vettel made a small adjustment to the right, Button doesn't and Vettel goes to take normal line to get a better exit and setup for a move into la source, or try round the outside of the bus stop instead, got his knickers in a twist and quite literally the car. and is just unfortunate to collcet Button.
Seems to me like a simple mistake anyone could of made, a racing incident, and not even worthy of a penalty if Button didn't retire. These things happen.
Infact im not even sure where Horner 'accuses' Button of causing the incident. Just that Vettel should perhaps be more careful of what others are doing and its not a playstation game where everyone else does the exact same thing every lap.
Now the front wing theory may be a little twist to this.
But one thing i noticed happing a lot this season is how drivers defend the inside line then move abruptly to the normal line before taking the corner.
I think Vettel thought Button might done that, Vettel made a small adjustment to the right, Button doesn't and Vettel goes to take normal line to get a better exit and setup for a move into la source, or try round the outside of the bus stop instead, got his knickers in a twist and quite literally the car. and is just unfortunate to collcet Button.
Seems to me like a simple mistake anyone could of made, a racing incident, and not even worthy of a penalty if Button didn't retire. These things happen.
Infact im not even sure where Horner 'accuses' Button of causing the incident. Just that Vettel should perhaps be more careful of what others are doing and its not a playstation game where everyone else does the exact same thing every lap.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Sorry to stray off topic but you'll see where I'm going shortly - oh, and I hope no-one objects to a little reminder re. the flexible wings and bodywork but (oh, and yes, I'm sure everyone's already thought about the safety issues)I think there's been a pre-occupation with the concept of "illegitimate advantage". Fact is the rules governing flexibility and movement of body parts were not intended to deal with the "advantage" issue.
The origin and intention of the FIA's restrictions on flexible wings goes back to a number of GP's (in 2004 or '05 I think) where wing failures resulted in some quite frightening and potentially life threatening crashes. Melbourne springs to mind where Villeneve's BAR Honda's had a particularly spectacular high speed off - in fact I think both BAR's had failures at speed on that weekend. The rules and tests have been tweaked ever since to minimise those kinds of eventuality.
Flexible bodywork rules do date back somewhat further to around '78 when Colin Chapman's Lotus (followed quickly by Williams) gained massive advantage over rivals with the ground effect enhancing floating side-skirts (or "double chassis" as I think some call it). There's long been a debate as to whether this was about safety or about antipathy toward Chapman's innovations but it's probably fair to say that both motives played a part in that.
So getting back on topic I suggest the fault lies with Adrian Newey! After all he should know that if you load up grip on one corner of your car and take it away from the other car is gonna spin! Tee hee.
The origin and intention of the FIA's restrictions on flexible wings goes back to a number of GP's (in 2004 or '05 I think) where wing failures resulted in some quite frightening and potentially life threatening crashes. Melbourne springs to mind where Villeneve's BAR Honda's had a particularly spectacular high speed off - in fact I think both BAR's had failures at speed on that weekend. The rules and tests have been tweaked ever since to minimise those kinds of eventuality.
Flexible bodywork rules do date back somewhat further to around '78 when Colin Chapman's Lotus (followed quickly by Williams) gained massive advantage over rivals with the ground effect enhancing floating side-skirts (or "double chassis" as I think some call it). There's long been a debate as to whether this was about safety or about antipathy toward Chapman's innovations but it's probably fair to say that both motives played a part in that.
So getting back on topic I suggest the fault lies with Adrian Newey! After all he should know that if you load up grip on one corner of your car and take it away from the other car is gonna spin! Tee hee.
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