Inconsistent stewarding is still an issue

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you agree there is resentment and jealousy towards Hamilton, how can he guarantee impartiality when passing judgement on matters concerning him? I'm sorry these are not mutually exclusive.

Errr, yes they can be. Anyway, Nigel has been the stewards advisor at 3 GP's (?) since the idea started. Are you suggesting he is responsible for all the perceived bias toward Lewis? I was surprised at the Maldonado decision but the Kobayashi one Lewis has admitted himself he made a mistake and apologised so what's the beef?
 
I was surprised at the Maldonado decision but the Kobayashi one Lewis has admitted himself he made a mistake and apologised so what's the beef?
Aarrghh, I don't really want to get sucked into this, but the decision not to investigate Hamilton-Kobayashi was made within minutes, so what Hamilton said post-race was irrelevant.

Even Williams said they were surprised at how lenient Maldonado's penalty was.

Personally I will never understand how the stewards reached the decisions they did with regards to that incident. It was as blatant and obvious as you could get.
 
The point I was making was that the decision was correct as Hamilton himself admitted he got it wrong.
 
Errr, yes they can be. Anyway, Nigel has been the stewards advisor at 3 GP's (?) since the idea started. Are you suggesting he is responsible for all the perceived bias toward Lewis? I was surprised at the Maldonado decision but the Kobayashi one Lewis has admitted himself he made a mistake and apologised so what's the beef?

You'd be hard pressed in convincing even a kangaroo court that you can resent a person and at the same time stay impartial in matters involving them. Cable certainly didn't succeed. What made the Kobayshi/Hamilton worse was not blameworthiness but the fact that the stewards couldn't even be bothered to get their finger out and look into it.
 
Mansell also said Hamilton's title was worth a fraction of his own based on there being less cars on the grid. That's a Jose Lorca kinda comment!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...t-as-credible-as-mine-says-Nigel-Mansell.html

After reading that he's either the most bitter and envious man in sports (alongside Larry Holmes) or clearly dislikes Hamilton. Either should make it a fallacy to have him stewarding races.
 
An illustration of why I have mixed feelings (sometimes concern, sometimes confusion) regarding Our Nige in the Stewards room is the incongruity between just two of the items that I had read. The first item, is one of the few full statements that seem to have come from the Stewards room. I'm not sure why I haven't seen more of these as it is precisely what I look for after every GP. The second is an item (not a great fan of the source I have to admit) containing comments that contradict the content of the first item. (Apologies for any repetition of other posts as I had to trawl back through my bookmarks and surfing history to find them).

Item 1) I found this here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/06/13/button-escapes-penalties-hamilton-alonso-crashes/

Regarding the Hamilton collision, the stewards issued the following statement:
The Stewards have reviewed the Incident involving Car 3 (L. Hamilton) and Car 4 (J. Button) on their 7th lap of the race. The Stewards reviewed the lines of several cars, including the two cars involved, using multiple angles of video evidence over several laps, the speed traces of both drivers, the GPS tracking data from the cars and have heard the drivers and team representatives.
The Stewards concluded that:
1) Exiting Turn 13 there was a legitimate overtaking opportunity for Lewis Hamilton as his speed was greater than Jensen Button’s.
2) Both drivers took lines substantially similar to many of the other drivers, and did not move as far to the left as the preceding driver, Michael Schumacher. At the moment afte Hamilton moved to the left to pass, Button looked into his mirror. It appears from the position of Hamilton at that moment [and is confirmed by the drivers] that Button was unlikely to have seen Hamilton.
3) At the point of contact Button had not yet moved as far to the left of the track as he had on the previous lap, or that Schumacher had on that lap.
The Stewards have concluded that it was reasonable for Hamilton to believe that Button would have seen him and that he could have made the passing manoeuvre. Further, the Stewards have concluded that it is reasonable to believe that Button was not aware of Hamilton’s position to his left. Therefore, the Stewards decide that this was a “racing incident” and have taken no further action.
Regarding the Alonso collision, the stewards decided:
Car 5 [Alonso] was on an out lap having pitted. Car 4 [Button] appeared to be firmly established on the inside line prior to the entry of the corner and drove onto the kerb to avoid Car 5 on the outside.
In view of the conditions and the statements by both drivers and their team representatives, the Stewards decide that this was a “racing incident” and have taken no further action.

My note: Good decisions, I thought and like the way they seem to have gone about things.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Item 2) An extract from here: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-crazy-risks-now-because-they-lack-respect.do

Those are not words Mansell would use about the performance of Button's McLaren team-mate Lewis Hamilton. He crashed out at Montreal after colliding with Button, leaving him questioning what Hamilton was up to.

"Jenson was lucky he did not have a rear suspension problem or a puncture as a result of the collision with Hamilton," Mansell says. "The fact that both of them are champions is not the issue. You always have rivalry in a team and there is pressure to do better than your team-mate."

Three-times champion Niki Lauda labelled Hamilton "completely mad" after the race and said that he fears the Briton's driving could lead to a death. "I hope it doesn't come to that but Hamilton has to learn to be patient," says Mansell, who emphasises this point by referring to what happened in Monaco two weeks ago.

Hamilton endured frustration in qualifying for that race as a crash by Sauber's Sergio Perez disrupted the session and prevented the McLaren man improving his time. To add to Hamilton's misery he was docked two places on the grid to ninth for cutting the chicane and he was then penalised twice in the race for colliding with Felipe Massa of Ferrari and Pastor Maldonado of Williams. Afterwards he had a rant at the stewards and escaped further penalties by apologising.

"You have to have a little bit of lady luck and there's no question Lewis had bad luck in qualifying," Mansell says. "I'm sure he would have been right up there at the front of the group but the accident happened and you have to accept it. But to force the issue in the manner he did in the race was unfortunate.
"He must learn you have to take your luck when it comes. When it goes against you, don't push it."
For Mansell, this shows a lack of respect for other drivers. He explains: "In our days drivers had a healthier respect for each other because they realised the dangers and they weren't so crazy in the car"

"When I started in Formula One in the late Seventies the circuit wasn't safe. Anywhere between two and six people a year were being killed. There were some races where several died. You knew it was a numbers game and you hoped your number wasn't up."

"There's no question the FIA [the sport's governing body] have done a wonderful amount of work for the safety of the drivers. The downside is that the drivers think they are bullet-proof. So they take far greater risks, they don't have as much respect for one another as they should. That's not great for the sport."

And Mansell feels that technology has radically changed motor racing.

"In our day the driver probably had more input into the car," he says. "We didn't have power steering or fully automated gearboxes. We didn't have all the technical whizzes that are on the car now, so we actually controlled the car far more than the drivers today. We could sometimes still do a job without the expertise of the engineers. Now the driver can't do a good job without them."

"We didn't have any simulators. We had to do it on the track all the time. Now they've got simulators for everything. And, if they have an accident or go off, then you just press a button, re-set and away you go again."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are just two examples. I'm not sure what to believe so I wonder, if those are his thoughts on some or most current drivers (that's not quite clear from the piece), just how many of the current grid can rely on his impartiality or otherwise?

Are the contradictions in the above examples of how Nigel is able to leave his opinion outside of the Stewards room or did the Stewards ignore his opinion? Personally, as a great fan of Mansell (in the days that I was a fan of someone) I rather hope that time will prove my cynicism to be wrong.
 
Not a fan of either Mansell and Lauda out of the cockpit I have to admit...But I take their comments with a huge dollop of salt. Lauda likes to be controversial and speak his mind (and probably encouraged to do so by RTL) and Mansell....well as a driver he was a tiger but we all know the other side to him (whinging, moaning, complaining). Plus the fact the man has an ego the size of a blimp...

If I was Hamilton I'd just shrug it off and put it down to either jealousy or resentment towards his success in only his 5th season in F1. In fact, if I recall correctly Mansell in his 5th season was on his way out of Lotus and about to enter the last chance saloon with Williams (who with Rosberg and Honda engines had been developing quite a package).
 
Does Mansell hold the same opinion regarding Button's championship in 09', because I believe that only 20 cars also competed in that year.......or does his warped reasoning only apply to Lewis??

I'll bet all the tea in China, that old Nige wouldn't be spewing out comments like that, if one of his sons were competent enough to gain entry into F1, and accomplished half of Lewis had.

What a.......HYPOCRITE!
 
I think the Mansell 24 cars comment is one of the most ridiculous comments ever.

In 2008, Hamilton beat (in a slightly lesser car) Raikkonen and Massa, and (in a better car) a reasonable challenge from Kubica.
In 1992, Mansell beat Patrese in the same car, with no-one else able to challenge.

So Hamilton beat the reigning world champion and two others, Mansell beat Riccardo bloody Patrese. I know what I'd class as more "challenging"!

Just to help some of you out, I've had the parts that are just my opinion typed in black.
 
That's just the problem. Hamilton cannot just shrug it off because some of these critics are now in a position to directly influence his race.

Which is in keeping with F1 not really being a sport and more a show (x factor type, opinions decide winner)

Alan Donelly, Max and now Mansell, old, bitter and not capable of fairness or balance. Mansell was a special police constable for a while, Max had his parties, Donelly I'm sure also had his outlet for his 'unfair' side and for dishing out 'retribution'

There is nothing new about vengeful guys with grudges and peculiar tastes allowed to wield power in F1

But ofcourse on an open forum at least we can point to these things without being accused of being hysterical Lewis fans

Right?
 
This is turning into the "boy that cried wolf", if we are talking about "fairness" then we should consider only the present, as what happened in 2007-2010 is completely irrelevent for the now.

1] Monaco - The penalty for the Massa/Webber incident was about just as it gets, Di Resta got a penalty for the exact same thing, so the stewarding was consistant and correct. I was rather surprised at how he didn't pick up a penalty for reminding Pastor Maldonado about his wall appointment.

2] Canada - A penalty would have been pointless anyways as he only had three wheels left.

3] Hungary - I coin the phrase "you just can't do that".

4] Belgium - I think the reprimand for the Maldonado incident was purely just the steward telling both of them "I will not have this carry over to the race, bad bad boys", and the Kobiyashi incident I am of the opinion that Kobiyashi was at fault.

WHERE IS THE UNFAIRNESS?

As I mentioned in the other thread about the same thing, who really cares what Lauda and co have to say, does that really impact on the performances and decisions of Lewis Hamilton, and do you really think he cares two hoots what they have to say about him?

Heres my reason for what is Hamilton's problem (oh god, I hope I don't smash his being with this), Lewis is unable to excersise a degree of deferance in differant situations, he will do what he does all the time, and whether that be a good thing or bad he is a Victim, a Victim of life, being that just because you can it doesn't mean that it is going to end in champaigne and roses all the time, sometimes it ends badly. So what can he do about it. 1] change his way of seeing a situation and possibly lose what the fans like about him, or 2] Carry on with what he is doing, have a few more prangs, be called up to the stewards office a few more times, win a few sensational races and keep the fans happy.

The only reason why he is up in the stewards office a lot, is because, low and behold when there is an incident Lewis Hamilton is involved.

(theme music - The Verve Bittersweet symphony)
----------------END-------------------

(Cue - Alonso is the most detestable person ever, he will steal your life jacket, beat his wife, steal a kids lunch money, whinge and moan, climb over his team mate..........have I left anything out? Poor Alonso is never going to recover from this.) T & C apply.
 
The point I was making was that the decision was correct as Hamilton himself admitted he got it wrong.

There was no decision because there was no investigation. Hamilton is quite obviously playing the PR game and taking the 'if you can't beat them join them approach'. Brundle called it 50-50 is his column and this was the general consensus. History tells us that sooner or later another driver will be at the receiving end of some of these ridiculous decisions and we will see how his fans and the apologists react. Who knew Alonso would have his own Spa 08 moment at Silverstone last year.
 
I guess by being deemed a "racing incident" it would generally be assumed that it is a 50-50, though I would more weight it Kobiyashi 90 > Hamilton 10. But my issue is what difference does it make, when two cars have a coming together they have to make a decision, is it; a) who is more liable or b) is it a racing incident. I still fail to see how this is the powers to be picking on Lewis Hamilton.

I would support the position that "stupid attempts should be outlawed and firmly dealt with" and as I did mention, in that tragedy it was Kobiyashi not recognising that he was beaten and refusing to yield, I watch it over and over again and sadly for our Japanese Banzai warrior, it looks more and more daft. I will however not accept the position that the Stewards are picking on Hamilton, just because. As I recall no blame was attached to either driver and one cannot assume that if the roles were reversed there would have been a penalty.

I will also clarify the point that yes Lewis has had shocking decisions, but so have the millions of other drivers in the history of the sport.....tis is how the cookie crumbles.

Yes Alonso throws a BF from time to time, he is human and also a very detestable person.......:(
 
Sarinaide, no deference? Do you know what that actually means? Are you even reading what peoples gripe with the no investigation thing is? How is he always the victim?

Jeez from where I'm watching there is a complete lack of deference on the part of Maldonaldo, Massa, Kobayashi etc.

And copying TBY putting tiny writing at the end isn't funny, but it is a great demonstration of how to actually play the victim.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom