How many stops in Canada?

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Theo, I don't understand your post. Vettel did indeed win that race with Alonso applying maximum pressure. Are you suggesting that Alonso was driving like a grandmother and not applying Maximum Pressure?

Theo, Kobayashi said he could have gone even longer on his Softs at Monaco on his first stint of the opening 34 Laps at Monaco (when the fuel load was it's heaviest). Also, Vettel approached what he figured would be 62 laps (79.5% of the race) in a measured and contained way feeling that his ONLY chance of winning would be to maintain track position. Ergo, if Vettel approaches the final 79.5 % of the Canadian GP as having to do 2 stints on Softs (i.e. the Prime), then there's no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to go 41-42 % of the race on Stint 2 on Softs and the remaining 37.5% - 38.5% of the race (i.e. Stint 3 to the Chequered Flag) on a second set of Softs at Montreal. Driving 'accordingly', of course. Ya?

Assuming no Safety Car.

 

[Jen]

I've gone for 3 stops - just 'cos I like the number

 

[Theo_55]

Theo, I don't understand your post. Vettel did indeed win that race with Alonso applying maximum pressure. Are you suggesting that Alonso was driving like a grandmother and not applying Maximum Pressure?

Theo, Kobayashi said he could have gone even longer on his Softs at Monaco on his first stint of the opening 34 Laps at Monaco (when the fuel load was it's heaviest). Also, Vettel drove those 56 laps in a measured and contained way figuring his ONLY chance of winning would be to maintain track position. Ergo, if Vettel approaches the final 79.5 % of the Canadian GP as having to do 2 stints on Softs (i.e. the Prime), then there's no reason to believe he wouldn't be able to go 41-42 % of the race on Stint 2 on Softs and the remaining 37.5% - 38.5% of the race (i.e. Stint 3 to the Chequered Flag) on a second set of Softs at Montreal. Driving 'accordingly', of course. Ya?

Assuming no Safety Car.

Ray, I am not saying that Alonso's driving was lacking commitment, I believe that Vettel's tyres would not have lasted the pressures of the last six laps, your summary of two stints on the soft tyres makes sense, however, I believe an extra stint on the super soft which would be 1.5 to 2 seconds faster would give the winner track position with an extra pitstop in his pocket and fresher tyres towards the end of the race.

The two overtaking DRS zones could also have a critical effect in this race, no need for a risky manouver into any corner.

Either way, there is a very fine margin between your two stop strategy and a three stop strategy using the super soft tyres.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

And Vettel's tyres were all but shot before that, which was why FA would have been in a great position to snatch the lead before the end.

Nope. You're dead wrong my friend...and that's why Red Bull and Ferrari won't be employing you as a tyre strategist.

Look at the link in my two threads which has Paul Hembrey quoting that Vettel would have gone 62 laps the way he was driving. After looking at his tyres and the data. Cheers! [Here is the link again: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92038]

Either way, there is a very fine margin between your two stop strategy and a three stop strategy using the super soft tyres.

Fair enough. What do you make of Pirelli saying Vettel's tyres would have lasted the 62 laps given how he'd driven on them? Alonso was soon going to be having to watch his mirrors so I doubt 100 percent of his focus would have been only on Vettel.

 

[Incubus]

Nope. You're dead wrong my friend...and that's why Red Bull and Ferrari won't be employing you as a tyre strategist.

Look at the link in my two threads which has Paul Hembrey quoting that Vettel would have gone 62 laps the way he was driving. After looking at his tyres and the data. Cheers!

---------------------------------------------------------------

Well that's funny because Vettel had an eight second lead wchich quickly vanished to nothing once FA got himself up to second.
Plus FA was very adamant he would have pulled a move in the last 6 laps because he could see "Vettel's tyres were shot".
As he'd been sniffing his gearbox at that stage he would know that better than any of us wouldn't he?

 

[Theo_55]

Fair enough. What do you make of Pirelli saying Vettel's tyres would have lasted the 62 laps given how he'd driven on them? Alonso was soon going to be having to watch his mirrors so I doubt 100 percent of his focus would have been only on Vettel.

I think Alonso had a better chance of winning the race, Button on his even fresher tyres would have a chance of Second place, Vettel would have played the percentages and perhaps settle for third place, in his position in the championship, the loss of an extra three points and taking third place would not be detremental to his WDC challenge.

 

[f1fansp]

...and that's why Red Bull and Ferrari won't be employing you as a tyre strategist.

And, presumably, the fact that he's not applied for the post?!? I'm sure we could claim the same of your tactical prowess though.

You seem to be labouring the point about Vettel's tyres having enough life in them at the end of the Monaco GP.
Back to the topic of Canada, if a similar strategy played out, his track position would almost certainly be meaningless and
inevitably overtaken by Alonso and Button in quick succession.

For Canada, track position isn't so vital.

What do you all think of keeping some new Supersofts/Options from Qualifying? If they've only got a lifespan of ~10 laps (based on nothing other thanlast year) initially, then the extra 3 for a Qualy run makes a big difference.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Well that's funny because Vettel had an eight second lead wchich quickly vanished to nothing once FA got himself up to second.

It would vanish. That's natural. It's natural on two counts: 1) Vettel driving 'within' the tyres...to 'save' them to go 62 laps; and 2) Alonso being on a fresher set of the same tyre.

In addition, Paul Hembrey of Pirelli confirmed that Vettel's tyres were fine. Where did Alonso say Vettel's tyres "were shot"?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

You seem to be labouring the point about Vettel's tyres having enough life in them at the end of the Monaco GP...Back to the topic of Canada, if a similar strategy played out, his track position would almost certainly be meaningless and inevitably overtaken by Alonso and Button in quick succession. For Canada, track position isn't so vital.

What do you all think of keeping some new Supersofts/Options from Qualifying? If they've only got a lifespan of ~10 laps (based on nothing other thanlast year) initially, then the extra 3 for a Qualy run makes a big difference.

Paul Hembrey said in the link i provided that Vettel's tyres were fine. That's not me...that's Pirelli saying so. And, yes, I'm aware that track position in Monaco is vital but is not the case in Montreal. But Monaco is where Vettel took his victory.

Yes, I think there's something to be said about saving a set of Super-Softs for the race. May be. If you're getting 1 to 1.5 seconds extra for only 10 laps, you have to weigh up how much time you lose in the pits (not accounting for a pit crew error as is the case at every race) and possibly being held up. It's not a no-brainer being held up in Montreal...look at Alonso losing the lead to Hamilton and then also losing 2nd to Button last year because of 'traffic'.

 

[Speshal]

You've discussed this point, at length, Ray.

I'm going for 3 stops.

 

[Incubus]

It would vanish. That's natural. It's natural on two counts: 1) Vettel driving 'within' the tyres...to 'save' them to go 62 laps; and 2) Alonso being on a fresher set of the same tyre.

In addition, Paul Hembrey of Pirelli confirmed that Vettel's tyres were fine. Where did Alonso say Vettel's tyres "were shot"?

Here, amongst many other places: (middle of the page)

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/vettel-wins-monaco-grand-prix/

"Alonso being on a fresher set of the same tyres"... funny that, a minute ago you were saying he was on super-softs?...

 

[RasputinLives]

You've discussed this point, at length, Ray

yes and you're still not changing anyone's mind.

Anyways - Although I've gone for 4 I do think there will be those who try to buck the trend and try 3 - most likely outside the top ten - but do anyone else think Button might try it?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Here, amongst many other places: (middle of the page)

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/vettel-wins-monaco-grand-prix/

"Alonso being on a fresher set of the same tyres"... funny that, a minute ago you were saying he was on super-softs?...

Where did I say that? Show me a post of mine that says Alonso was on Super-Softs before the red flag came out?

And...that's James Allen saying Vettel's tyres "were shot", not Alonso himself. So...Alonso never said his tyres "were shot"...Are you going to believe a Ferrari fanboi like James Allen or Paul Hembrey of Pirelli?

 

[sportsman]

Due to the pit lane penalty being only 16 seconds I have gone for four.

 

[Slyboogy]

I, like Sportsman the unbiased observer, went for four too

But I wouldn't be surprise if it was three stops or above

 

[Slyboogy]

Where did I say that? Show me a post of mine that says Alonso was on Super-Softs before the red flag came out?

And...that's James Allen saying Vettel's tyres "were shot", not Alonso himself. So...Alonso never said his tyres "were shot"...Are you going to believe a Ferrai fanboi like James Allen or Paul Hembrey of Pirelli?

Wooow! Going round in circles on two threads!!! If the Monaco GP thread was still alive, I think you be going round that track/thread aswell!

Just messing Ray!

 

[RasputinLives]

and writing fanboi with a i doesn't make it any more true!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

What do I win if the Canadian Grand Prix winner does a 2-Stopper?

 

[Slyboogy]

4 threads of your own where you can go round in circles in by yourself!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]