Horner cries "waaa!" (again)

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84911

"I think if you look at basic studies you would say we are about three per cent down on power – which is probably about 30-35bhp ... It is getting a bit boring. Through the regulations, there is nothing that specifically deals with engine equality, and that is the problem ... we rely on the FIA and the teams and manufacturers to create a healthy situation. It is not healthy to have a situation where one engine is significantly ahead of the rest."

Read simply as : "can we have some more, sir?"

He can sod off as far as I'm concerned. Mercedes built a more powerful engine when the opportunity was there, Renault didn't. Get over it. You can get your own back in 2013. LOL
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
If you have missed my posts in the Statistics forum, the Qualifying World Championship for this year (that is the result if people were awarded Championship points for qualifying position) stand thus:



That is Red Bull on a points total so great that both their drivers would lead the QWCC alone!

Now, is it just me, or is that not a symptom of an under-performing car? There have been no symptoms of under performing cars at RBR this year.

Simply, if Horner and his merry men had performed better themselves converting their fantastic car into race wins then they'd be leading the championship, and Horner might just shut up.

And look who won QWC last year:
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
What annoys me about this is last season all we heard from the Red Bull camp was how McLaren had a "magic button", despite KERS being totally within the rules.

This season they've been going on about the F-duct, developed by McLaren, before going on to develop one of their own.

Now they're moaning about engine performance again, specifically compared to the Mercedes unit, used by McLaren.

So it's not OK for a team to have all of the above but it is OK for a team to have an engine which is lighter, more responsive and fuel efficient.
Not to mention having a superbly handling car with excellent grip and downforce.
As well as a trick suspension set up which gives them a huge advantage in qualifying.

So if I've got this right:

Everything McLaren does = bad
Everything Red Bull does = good

Is that about right?



Edit: And as TBY has very ably pointed out, if Red Bull didn't throw race wins away then they would be comfortably in the lead.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Brogan said:
specifically compared to the Mercedes unit, used by McLaren.

Would that be the Mercedes Benz FO 108X also used by Mercedes GP and Force India? The one that McLaren vetoed RB from having? is it that one is it? ;)

W**nker.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Speshal said:
Would that be the Mercedes Benz FO 108X also used by Mercedes GP and Force India? ;)
It would but those teams never seem to get mentioned, probably because they're not a threat to Red Bull.

The relative performance of McLaren, Mercedes and Force India is all the proof you need that it's not just about the engine, or the tyres, or the bodywork, or the driver.
It's the whole package and for the last 12 months, Red Bull have had the best one.
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
On this forum the argument has usually been against standardised engines because we all feel that variety is the spice of life in F1 and I am certainly in favour of this.

Now it seems that Mr Horner is all for standard engines as it would take away the power advantage of the Mercedes engine and, to a lesser extent, Ferrari. Brogan has already argued on our behalf that the Renault engine is more fuel efficient, lighter and hence more responsive so surely on some circuits this would put the Red Bulls at a distinct advantage.

Christian is either at the mind games again or is moaning because Red Bull have been unable to turn their clear advantage in speed into race victories and championship leads. My guess is a mixture of both.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Its simple moaning, pure and simple.

Currently Red Bull are behind (guess) McLaren in the WCC (ahead on pace), but Renault seem to be ahead of both Mercedes and Force India on pace at the moment.

Anyone but McLaren and Vettel were also defeated at the European GP, supposedly at an engine circuit, by a Williams-Cosworth.

Just grow up and manage your inter-team crashing better and maybe you don't bin points!
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Now i'm no mathematical genius but 3%... 30-35bhp!!

Is he really suggesting that the Mercedes FO108X 2.4 V8 is producing 1000bhp or more?

I can't remember an engine producing those kind of figures since the old turbo days.

maybe he's he's been sniffing to much freeze dried red bull and meant 3%...20-25bhp :dunno:
 

KraXik

Rookie
Without as much downforce Renault have had one of the highest top speeds. The engine is a minimal differntial in the cars. The aero affecting bodywork is much more important.

Horner, you had the chance to use Ferrari engines and you picked Renualt, spend your time looking at the advantages of it and stop moaning about it.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Let the baby have his bottle! In truth Horner is no better or worse than any of the other team principals when they are close to the front but not winning, look at the fuss Ferrari made after Valencia.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
FB said:
Let the baby have his bottle! In truth Horner is no better or worse than any of the other team principals when they are close to the front but not winning, look at the fuss Ferrari made after Valencia.

I'm criticising Horner now because it is his comment that is up for discussion. I am open to the idea of criticising everyone else should the opportunity arise, and should it be an appropriate response.

Especially Flavio Briatore!
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Brogon said:
So it's not OK for a team to have all of the above but it is OK for a team to have an engine which is lighter, more responsive and fuel efficient

I think Horner is actually reasonably happy with the Renault, if he can't have the Mercedes power unit. The reason he's banging on is because he's trying to get permission for a rebuild from the FIA on the grounds of lack of power. He is just trying to be sneaky, knowing that if Renault to get permission to update the power unit, they will have by far the best engine on the grid.

Concur with the sentiments of "Shut the hell up!!"
 
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