Formula One can live without Ferrari

[Galahad]

The point is that a new series would be owned by the participants.

CVC Capital Partners own F1. All the money that is generated by F1 - broadcasting rights, circuit fees and sponsorship - gets divided into two - 50% goes to CVC to pay off their debts, and 50% goes to the teams.

Under the terms of a new series, the teams could retain 100% of the sport's collective earnings. In practice, of course, you need a team to administrate the commercial side of the sport, but that should be possible with <5% of the total. So the teams could all be better off as a result.

Alternatively they could trade-off revenue and try to ensure they have races in their key markets - if the USA won't pay as much for a race as Abu Dhabi will, but you decide, as the competing teams, that you need a race in the US, then you can agree to forego the revenue from Abu Dhabi and have your race in the US instead.

Getting all the broadcasting contracts tied up would be very challenging indeed. But I don't think it would be impossible. The circuits can host races from multiple series - the Le Mans Series is regulated by the ACO, has nothing to do with the FIA, and they race at Silverstone, Nurburgring, Spa and Monza.

 

[teabagyokel]

TBY makes a point that circuits will allow a breakaway series to race. but i have serious doubts about that. how can any breakaway series set up races like F1? its not just to plan a race and to hire a circuit, its a whole chain of financials, TV rights etc etc. and not just once, but say 18 times per year. has this ever been done? outside of FIA i mean.

I'm not sure about motorsport, but Indian Premier League cricket was set up at the drop of a hat last year and managed to sort out its finances, and they've moved the whole thing to South Africa this year, which seems to be fine. The Premier League football is also a pretty good example of the teams' moving to control their own fate and relegating the Football League - they managed to stay within the FA though.

It all depends on what the reception is, but if the money is there and there are enough big teams it can happen! It just needs someone dissatisfied enough with F1 and someone brave enough to give up his seat on the QPR board (for example) and it can happen!

 

[cider_and_toast]

Those teams looking at a break away series must take some heart from the IRL/Cart situation of the last 10 years. Despite many predictions that it wouldn't, it was IRL that won the day.

The key to any break away F1 series is the brand name. Ferrari have a name and brand that should help in this quest but if they were to lead the drive for a new series they would have a hard time persuading people that they weren't going to be the ones to gain the most from it. Just look at the problems surrounding the claims of a Ferrari / FIA axis in the past and for the most part self gain is one of the things that drives a formula one team. Another issue is that the teams would have to ensure that the new series was not a closed shop that only exists for the purpose of cash generation for the chosen few. It must be about the product if they are to recapture what many people believe is missing in formula one.

For my part, I support a budget cap and would really love to see a return to bigger grids. I would even love it if there were so many cars that they had to bring back pre-qualifying.

One factor that will always remain is any new series will not be the Formula One world championship and that to my mind is what matters most. Any new series will have no right to claim a history that includes Fangio, Moss, Clark, Senna, Prost, Schumacher or Gastone Mazzacaine. Over the years formula one cars have evolved and developed but it's the same sport. It's much the same as the medeval axe that has had 5 new heads and 6 new handles.

As always the politics of it all will sort its self out in due course with a compromise being reached. The FIA have already shifted on the cap from 30 to 40 million. Given that, looking at the rules, the cap dosn't include wages for drivers/team members there dosn't appeart to be the risk of massive pay cuts.

I would have thought that even the big manufacturing teams would want to reduce their overheads as much as possible.

The idea of having a big budget restricted car and a budget capped un-restricted car is the major sticking point which I feel would be best resolved by making all teams stick to a budget.

My only worry is not about who will and won't be entering or driving, but about safety. If these un-restricted low budget teams come up with a brilliant but flawed idea that isn't adequatly tested due to a lack of funds we could see some very dangerous situations developing.

 

[teabagyokel]

They might well have a claim on Gaston Mazzacane...

Safety is the big one I feel, we don't want driver deaths. Of course if the "breakaway" series contains all of Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Williams, Toyota, Red Bull etc. then it would be an unforgivable historical mistake to claim that Bernie's shadow F1 would claim the history of Prost, Senna, Clark, Stewart, Fangio, Schumacher, Lauda, Ascari, Villeneuve and Ide. That's like Wolves calling themselves English champions for winning the Football League this year!

F1 doesn't mean Bernie, even if he owns the term, he doesn't own its soul!

 

[bogaTYR]

TBY

i don't agree, bernie does own F1's soul. almost 60 years of tradition! F1 is more then 'just' name, it stands for something. suppose there would be a weekend with 2 races, one F1 without for instance ferrari and the other one, say, G1 with for instance ferrari. no matter how hard G1 would try, F1 will still have the tradition and the famous names, be in in the past.

what i think is missing in this discussion is the fact that F1 is more then the sum of the teams. take myself as an example, i have no favourite team or driver, i think the last few races were lousy and the drivers nowadays need a bad guy. but still i watch the races and still my hair stands up on the back of my neck when those lights turn green. cos it is still F1. i watched A1GP a few times and it simply does nothing for me. the racing seems to matter less then the idea what i am watching is not F1.

this is something no breakaway serie can ever claim. and you are wrong, TBY, of course F1 can claim this heritage cos it is theirs. or to put is simple, LH as WDC is part of F1, not of ferrari or any other team. and going forward with the theme, of course ferrari is a huge part of F! and its heritage. its hard to separate the two, but i think ferrari needs F1 more then the other way around. how can any breakaway serie fight against 60 odd years of brand building? lets be fair and say, it will take at least 10 years to build something even remotely like F1. will any breakaway serie wait that long? i think not.

 

[Speshal]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Isn't this just normal Max behaviour though?

Say 30 million, the teams react in shock and then the haggling begins and it ends up at being 75/100million?

Slightly edited from here

But it's the same old same old - Max sets the bar stupidly low - the teams bitch and moan, the bar gets raised everyone goes racing :?:

I still wonder what will happen when the world pulls out of recession and Max has gone?

 

[teabagyokel]

POST SELF-MODERATED

 

[cider_and_toast]

While I see what you're driving at TBY you are using a slightly false premise here.

The Premier Leauge REPLACED the first division, it didn't run alongside it.

The order of English football leagues was changed from

Div 4, Div 3, Div 2 and Div 1

To become

Div 3, Div 2, Div 1 and Premiership.

Now I would agree with you if you were talking about a break away European league that contained the top few teams in each home national league.

So where did you stand on the CART/IRL split. Now here's the thing, When IRL split from the Indy Car series they took the Indy 500 with it. Officialy the Indy Car Champion came from the ranks of the now rebranded Cart series. Was the IRL/Indy 500 series legitimate? I.E. who retained the history of champions ?? I believe it was CART.

I know this may sound silly but just look at darts. In the early 90s the best dart players of the time, Eric Bristow, etc etc broke away to form the PDC and sold the rights to Sky. Now the BDO still run the darts world championship and this is still recognised as the official series with all the history that entails.

Yes it would seem odd having all the big names in any break away series but the FIA sanctionend and FOM branded Formula one world championship would remain exactly that.

 

[bogaTYR]

"if you are insane enough"

i don't think i need to reply to anything containing these words.

 

[Bellabella]

F1 isn't all about Ferrari, BUT they are a HUGE part of the sport. They are an institution, an Italian masterpiece. They are a rich, beautiful part of the sport.

I am not a Ferrari fan, but I do agree with you.