FIA Ferrari's team orders WMSC hearing
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
I think individual results stand once the stewards have finalised them, but drivers/constructors can lose points, up until the F1 gala when the season is officially 'over' hence nothing could be done regarding singapore '08 last year.
The difference between finalised and not could be fairly major in this case. This is an example only, but IF the WMSC decide to DQ both Ferrari cars from the race and take the points off them, Finalised results would mean 3rd place stays 3rd place, gets 15 points (Vettel I believe) however, if they aren't finalised, meaning the race result isn't yet set, Vettel could be promoted to 1st, and so on down the list.
Again the above scenario is purely for example and not what i think will happen, but it could make quite a difference!
sorry if i've confused anyone or it doesn't make sense! (does to me but i'm struggling to stay awake today
)
The difference between finalised and not could be fairly major in this case. This is an example only, but IF the WMSC decide to DQ both Ferrari cars from the race and take the points off them, Finalised results would mean 3rd place stays 3rd place, gets 15 points (Vettel I believe) however, if they aren't finalised, meaning the race result isn't yet set, Vettel could be promoted to 1st, and so on down the list.
Again the above scenario is purely for example and not what i think will happen, but it could make quite a difference!
sorry if i've confused anyone or it doesn't make sense! (does to me but i'm struggling to stay awake today
)just seen here http://twitter.com/alanbaldwinf1 that the hearing isn't scheduled to start til 1500 local time, so a little bit of time to wait yet. 
Could Ferrari as a team lose all their constructor points like McLaren did after Liegate?
This maybe the regulation regarding expiry date of penalties and appeals.If so then the results could be changed or other penalties imposed or removed before this date.
This is from International Sporting Code.
179b). Right of review
If, in events forming part of a FIA Championship, a new element
is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have
already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing
this, those designated by the FIA, must meet on a date agreed
amongst themselves, summoning the party or parties concerned
to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the
facts and elements brought before them.
The right of appeal against this new decision is confined to the
party or parties concerned in accordance with the final paragraph
of Article 180 and the following Articles of this Code.
Should the first decision already have been the subject of an
appeal before the National Court of Appeal or before the
International Court of Appeal, or successively before both of these
courts, the case shall be lawfully submitted to them for the
possible revision of their previous decision.
The period during which an appeal in review may be brought
expires on 30 November of the current year
This is from International Sporting Code.
179b). Right of review
If, in events forming part of a FIA Championship, a new element
is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have
already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing
this, those designated by the FIA, must meet on a date agreed
amongst themselves, summoning the party or parties concerned
to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the
facts and elements brought before them.
The right of appeal against this new decision is confined to the
party or parties concerned in accordance with the final paragraph
of Article 180 and the following Articles of this Code.
Should the first decision already have been the subject of an
appeal before the National Court of Appeal or before the
International Court of Appeal, or successively before both of these
courts, the case shall be lawfully submitted to them for the
possible revision of their previous decision.
The period during which an appeal in review may be brought
expires on 30 November of the current year
gally5 said:
But that is it. Ferrari want F1 to be both a shop window and a non-competitive demonstration of their excellence. It cannot be both.
Its no suprise really, they have to be consistent, and both raikkonen and hamilton won titles courstesy of team orders, albiet not quite so blatant. As for bringing the sport disrepute, it was just horner and whitmarsh moaning, and im starting to blank out thier frequent moans.
When was that?tooncheesef1 said:
I remember Massa being "delayed" in the pits at Brazil.
I can't remember when Kovalainen was asked to move over, unless you mean when he moved aside at the British GP for Hamilton who went on to make up a further 4 places to win the race?
Anyway, that's probably a discussion for another thread, this one perhaps? Should team orders be allowed?
Brogan said:
There was the Kovalainen move over in the German GP as well, and it could be argued that the Piquet/Alonso team-orders in Singapore were a major effect on the Hamilton championship win, which was cancelled out by the Massa/Raikkonen swap in China.
All or nowt, I feel. Can't only punish team-orders when the team involved leads.
Let's not forget the initial charge of team orders hasn't been rescinded, they just haven't been penalised further.
Which effectively means that a breach of the rules is OK as long as you're prepared to pay $100,000.
From now on, teams will be able to be as blatant as they want, after all it's doubtful they could be more so than Ferrari were.
I expect Red Bull and McLaren will be pleased about this.
Which effectively means that a breach of the rules is OK as long as you're prepared to pay $100,000.
From now on, teams will be able to be as blatant as they want, after all it's doubtful they could be more so than Ferrari were.
I expect Red Bull and McLaren will be pleased about this.
What was the whole point of the hearing then?
I think its time for an independant sports council. There is too much rule breaking going on in all sports these days and most of the time it gets covered up by the governing body of the sport in question.
I'm sick of the news been full of Team orders, Cricket match fixing and Football's two feet over a line and still not counting as a goal.
There is enough technology these days to monitor what is happening on the track/field/pitch to eliminate simple mistakes and if any persons or team tries to take advantage of the rules then the punishment should be swift and harsh.
Bring back gentlemanly conduct and fair play.
Sport is no longer sporting!
Ok rant over
Everyone looking forwards to Monza?
I think its time for an independant sports council. There is too much rule breaking going on in all sports these days and most of the time it gets covered up by the governing body of the sport in question.
I'm sick of the news been full of Team orders, Cricket match fixing and Football's two feet over a line and still not counting as a goal.
There is enough technology these days to monitor what is happening on the track/field/pitch to eliminate simple mistakes and if any persons or team tries to take advantage of the rules then the punishment should be swift and harsh.
Bring back gentlemanly conduct and fair play.
Sport is no longer sporting!
Ok rant over
Everyone looking forwards to Monza?
Brogan said:
I suspect if Vettel does something stupid at Monza then Red Bull will be sending out coded messages like:
At some point in the last 5 races, and this ruling opens the floodgates. That they were closed originally - well, thats up for debate!
Brogan said:
Bro, where I agree with you in essence - when was the last season we had a straight fight? This is not the sport to follow for ethics or morals - the team will always have the last say on which driver prevails.
Sadly, gone are the days when the man who can won.
It is a fair point that we can expect the rule to be broken again if a team feels it necessary, personally I'm ok with that as long as the penalty is consistent! (And this seems far from a given in F1 at times)
I would rather it were transparent though than teams doing it but trying to cover it up (or not as in Ferrari's case). I don't think it is possible to stop team orders or define when they are or are not acceptable meaning that it would be best just to accept them.
On today's result I am glad no further punishment was given, as a McLaren fan I am somewhat fed up of excessive punishments but this should be even across all teams. Ferrari may have been perceived ( ) to have benefitted in the past but this season has been better so far in terms of punishments not being excessive (bar monaco) and I would rather this continued for all.
I would rather it were transparent though than teams doing it but trying to cover it up (or not as in Ferrari's case). I don't think it is possible to stop team orders or define when they are or are not acceptable meaning that it would be best just to accept them.
On today's result I am glad no further punishment was given, as a McLaren fan I am somewhat fed up of excessive punishments but this should be even across all teams. Ferrari may have been perceived ( ) to have benefitted in the past but this season has been better so far in terms of punishments not being excessive (bar monaco) and I would rather this continued for all.
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