Grand Prix 2022 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The French may have invented motor racing, the British held the first World Championship Grand Prix, but the Italians give the sport its heart. This weekend the F1 circus visits Monza, a circuit affectionately referred to as the Temple of Speed, and with good reason. In 2020 Lewis Hamilton took pole at Monza with an average speed of 264.362 kph, or 164.267 mph, and Lewis claimed he could probably have gone quicker. If you would like to enjoy watching this lap again just click on the video below, it doesn't take long, and you will notice that it was only in the middle sector that Lewis set the fastest sector time!


Monza is the home of the fastest F1 race. In 2003 Michael Schumacher averaged 247.585 kph, 153.842 mph, which included a pit stop on lap 15.

In 2005 Juan Pablo Montoya peddled his Williams up to 372.6 kph, 231.523 mph. To put this in to a context which you can visualise, that is 103 metres per second. So if JPM were racing Usain Bolt, Bolt would have covered about 10 metres when the Williams crossed the finish line.

There is only one team to support in Italy, and that is Ferrari. There may be other companies who make racing cars in Italy, but there is only one which reaches in to the very soul of what it is to be an Italian motor racing fan. It doesn't matter who is driving their beloved red cars, the Tifosi (which literally translates as "fans") they will arrive in their red shirts, they will cheer the cars round every lap, and more often than not they will go home disappointed. Ferrari have won 20 times at Monza in the World Championhips era, in the last 20 years they have only won 6 times.

Monza has also given us some odd winners. In 2008 Sebastian Vettel won his first Grand Prix driving for Toro Rosso. Pierre Gasly also took his first race win at Monza in the Alpha Tauri in 2020. For those who know their F1 history, both these teams can trace their lineage back to Minardi who are based in Faenza. For the Italian fans, even though this team is also based in Italy, them winning the race is still a disappointment as they are, very simply, not Ferrari.

To find the last Italian driver to win in Italy, you have to go back to 1966. Ludovico Scarfiotti won the race in a Ferrari. But Ferrari has never been wedded to the idea that it needs to have Italian drivers, rather they want to have the fastest drivers in their car. Ferrari has won the World Drivers Championship 15 times, but the only Italian to win the World Championship in a Ferrari is Alberto Ascari, way back in 1952 and 1953.

Last year we had what will probably be the last ever win for Daniel Ricciardo, driving for McLaren. It will be interesting to see where Ricciardo ends up next season given Oscar Piastri will be taking his seat for 2023. The 2021 race is probably more famous for the incident at the first chicane between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, where the Mercedes ended up underneath the Red Bull with the halo saving Hamilton from what could have been a far more serious injury.

What can we look forward to this year? I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest that Max Verstappen will take pole, will probably lead every lap and take the fastest race lap as well. Come on Ferrari and Mercedes, prove me wrong!

Here's the schedule for Sky coverage:

1662541298109.png

Enjoy.
 
Last edited:

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
So if any of the drivers had not pitted under the SC then whoever was first in line would have won the 'race' due to it finishing under SC conditions?
I think you need to multiply half the square of the gap between second and ninth by the number of hours Sky talks to Christian Horner in a season. Take thst figure and divide it by the number of potential safety car laps in a season. Half that number and divide that by a third of the average number of spanners in a toolkit belonging to the team currently in 8th in the championship. The result of that calculation will still get you no closer to understanding the safety car rules
 

Hamberg

Those who know, they know
Contributor
I think you need to multiply half the square of the gap between second and ninth by the number of hours Sky talks to Christian Horner in a season. Take thst figure and divide it by the number of potential safety car laps in a season. Half that number and divide that by a third of the average number of spanners in a toolkit belonging to the team currently in 8th in the championship. The result of that calculation will still get you no closer to understanding the safety car rules
Understood
 

Il_leone

World Champion
I'm very confused, I though as soon as the leaders were behind the safety car, those in between them were let through and we then went "motor racing".

Is it the race director's responsibility to tell the SC when to go out? A bad end to a not particularly interesting race, but the fastest driver in the fastest car won again, which is what we have come to expect. It really

Utter utter farce. Ricciardo's car was in one piece, and there were 5 laps to go, yet the safety car was managed terribly, and no chance to race. The Italian crowd are going to riot.
Shambolic ending
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I just don’t understand how they made such a hash of it today.

The safety car was released at the wrong time - it should have been released just before Verstappen came to the end of the pit lane, rather than at some time after.

Verstappen did about 3-4 laps before he even caught the safety car. That is absolutely unacceptable!

If it needs to, the safety car should stop, and wait for the leader to catch up.

Utter incompetence!
 

Il_leone

World Champion
I just don’t understand how they made such a hash of it today.

The safety car was released at the wrong time - it should have been released just before Verstappen came to the end of the pit lane, rather than at some time after.

Verstappen did about 3-4 laps before he even caught the safety car. That is absolutely unacceptable!

If it needs to, the safety car should stop, and wait for the leader to catch up.

Utter incompetence!
Where was the race director in controlling the safety car?
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
One thing's for sure, the whole procedure for recovering stranded cars needs to be reviewed because it's having too much effect on races these days. F1 has become more and more like racing in the US where on ovals any sort of issue warrents a full course yellow / safety car period.

I understand the reason for the virtual and full safety cars as the drivers and marshals are exposed to increased risk but the time taken to revover the cars needs to be reviewed. First and foremost, all cars should attempt to return to the pits. If this is not possible they should stop at a clearly marked recovery area and then, only if none of this is possible (crash or the car is absolutely unable to continue) should the car stop as safely as possible where it can. Any area of the track that isn't within close distance of a recovery area should be covered by cranes to remove cars over the fence without the need to move the car. This is the way that most of the Monaco circuit is covered and it works absolutely fine there.

Teams whose cars do have to stop on the track should report to the stewards on completion of the race to explain why their car could not safely return to the pits or to a safe recovery area and if the reasons are not found to be acceptable they should be fined for an unsafe stop.
 

GeoffP

Wake me when we’re there
Contributor
One thing's for sure, the whole procedure for recovering stranded cars needs to be reviewed because it's having too much effect on races these days. F1 has become more and more like racing in the US where on ovals any sort of issue warrents a full course yellow / safety car period.

I understand the reason for the virtual and full safety cars as the drivers and marshals are exposed to increased risk but the time taken to revover the cars needs to be reviewed. First and foremost, all cars should attempt to return to the pits. If this is not possible they should stop at a clearly marked recovery area and then, only if none of this is possible (crash or the car is absolutely unable to continue) should the car stop as safely as possible where it can. Any area of the track that isn't within close distance of a recovery area should be covered by cranes to remove cars over the fence without the need to move the car. This is the way that most of the Monaco circuit is covered and it works absolutely fine there.

Teams whose cars do have to stop on the track should report to the stewards on completion of the race to explain why their car could not safely return to the pits or to a safe recovery area and if the reasons are not found to be acceptable they should be fined for an unsafe stop.
What he said
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
So if any of the drivers had not pitted under the SC then whoever was first in line would have won the 'race' due to it finishing under SC conditions?
verstappen still had 21 second lead, as binotto said even if they stayed out verstappen wouldve retained the lead
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
that was alright race, for once i can't blame Ferrari today because i dont blame them for why they took advantage of the VSC. it's what your conditioned to do & it's what i would've done. but at that point they would've been beaten either way. Verstappen race pace is just in a different league to everyone currently. when you look & Leclerc on new softs was only half a second quicker per lap

De vries hats off brilliant drive, points on your debut in car bottom of constructors. if i was Latifi i would start looking for another drive because is probably 4th choice for that seat LOL it looks a shootout between de vries or promoting their american academy talent in Logan Sargent


i dont believe it F1 in safety car farce surely not ;) it's how Abu Dhabi should've finished, but booing & jeering, anti-climactic ending is why i had sympathy for he who must not be named, what i said he was trying to avoid. because that decision has gone down like a lead balloon, i always shocked this hasn't been rectified i remember when Hakkinen won under safety car from Fisichella at the 1999? Canadian GP & it was received very badly then. this was just a dead rubber for intents & purposes. as i say can you imagine this anti climatic ending with the entire sporting world watching back in december. just because they followed the rules doesnt mean those rules are correct. for football fans VAR interpterion of Offside is proof of that. they should have a rule to red flag/ pause any race in that situation 4-5 laps to go where they likely to finish under safety. because nobody wants to see a race finish like that. its not good for fans, the show or the sport
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
Latifi has demonstrated consistent performances, if he finishes it's near the back, if he doesn't finish it's consistently in the barrier, what he needs is at least some sort of flash in the pan.
 

Wombat

Browser
@Wombat is Russell leading a charmed life or is it that he makes great decisions in the car. in same way Button winning many races in wet & changeable conditions wasnt lucky. you cant blame russell for taking advantage for Ferrari incompetence
I understand what you’re saying here but that’s not what I’m talking about. What I was referring to are lucky circumstances that a driver benefits from through no merit of his own that have nothing to do with actual on-track racing. Chief among these circumstances are safety car periods. The most obvious such situation re. full safety car periods is that cars that have built a gap over other competitors are simply stripped of it as the trailing cars are allowed to close right up behind the cars in front of them and are thus just gifted the elimination of that gap, even if it was a large one. As a further example of the kind of circumstance I’m referring to, consider a situation re. teammates in which one of them is dominating the other, having built a 7 sec. lead at the time when they are due for their final pit stop. As is commonly done, the lead car is pitted first so the trailing car thus temporarily gains the lead while his teammate pits but will then lose it when he pits on the next lap. However, just as the first driver exits the pits a VSC is called. This then allows the driver who had been trailing by a whopping 7 secs. to pit and (since cars can go faster in the pits than on track under a VSC) he comes out ahead of his teammate. In this case that driver did nothing on his own to earn that lead over his teammate who had been dominating him—he simply was gifted that lead by a lucky circumstance. These are the kind of things that I was referring to.

I'm not saying that GR hasn't driven well, just that fortune has tended to smile upon him this season. GR may even have again benefitted from a safety car period today. Sainz had closed the gap to GR from 17 secs. (after his stop) down to less than 7 with 6 laps still to go. However, the safety car then came out, putting an end to Sainz charge and thus saving GR from possibly losing that final podium spot to Sainz (of course, now we’ll never know whether or not Sainz could have done it).
 

Wombat

Browser
I have just one main comment re. this race and it’s the same comment that many other F1 fans are probably also thinking: despite what one may think re. the competence of the track clearing work, the safety car rules were correctly and legally followed and this is how the 2021 Abu Dhabi race should have ended (i.e., under safety car conditions—and finishing a race behind the safety car is legal and has happened before). It must be particularly galling to Lewis and the Merc team as this prime example of legally following and conducting a safety car period by the rules serves as a painful reminder of how the safety car rules were so horribly violated and illicitly altered in Abu Dhabi, disgracefully and illegitimately stealing the win and record 8th WDC from Lewis…And of how, despite acknowledging this, the FIA did nothing of consequence to correct this theft. A hundred years from now, it will still be obvious to anyone who views a recording of that race that, by the FIA Sporting Regs., Lewis was the real winner.
 

Bleu

Podium Finisher
I just don’t understand how they made such a hash of it today.

The safety car was released at the wrong time - it should have been released just before Verstappen came to the end of the pit lane, rather than at some time after.

Verstappen did about 3-4 laps before he even caught the safety car. That is absolutely unacceptable!

If it needs to, the safety car should stop, and wait for the leader to catch up.

Utter incompetence!

This. I'll add that information about safety car should have been made when Verstappen was between Ascari and Parabolica - given a team option whether to pit or not.

Or at least, safety car should have stopped on the straight between Curva Grande and Variante della Roggia.
 

Chris Tea

Browser
What I was referring to are lucky circumstances that a driver benefits from through no merit of his own that have nothing to do with actual on-track racing.
"Sometimes you make your own luck". What this means is that GR actively places himself in a positions that would benefit from such circumstances.
You can consider it luck just so many times, after that it's being smart, playing the odds and being consistent.
 

Wombat

Browser
"Sometimes you make your own luck". What this means is that GR actively places himself in a positions that would benefit from such circumstances.
You can consider it luck just so many times, after that it's being smart, playing the odds and being consistent.
I agree that sometimes you make your own luck but other times you just get a lucky break that had nothing to do with anything in particular that you did. And sometimes people just consistently get some lucky breaks. We all know that the drivers are ultra-competitive and strive to be as high up the order as they can get. No driver actively plans to be behind his teammate and other drivers and thinks “OK, I’m smartly positioning myself behind these drivers so that a safety car will hopefully come out and hand me a free pit stop advantage over them.” Drivers don’t deliberately select to be behind others and no one knows when or if an incident that brings out a safety car will occur. Again, drivers just strive to get as high up the order as they can (except in some specific team order cases) and wherever they are, should a safety car period occur that happens to benefit certain drivers that’s just pure luck, not something that they had planned or actively positioned themselves for.

As an example of what I’m talking about here, consider this year’s Australian GP. Lewis was ahead of GR and as is common practice, as the team’s lead driver on track he was pitted first. The lead he had gained over GR before the round of stops meant he would regain his lead over GR when they pitted him. But in a stroke of unexpected good fortune for GR, just after Lewis came out from his stop and before GR had come in for his, Vettel crashed his car. This immediately created a safety car period and gave GR a free stop under the safety car conditions that allowed him to come out ahead of Lewis (who had to drive slowly because of the safety car conditions). This was purely a case of being gifted by a lucky break that (what are the odds!) just happened to occur at the perfect moment for GR. This wasn’t something GR had actively planned and positioned himself for. On the contrary, he would have much preferred to have been leading Lewis nor did he have any clue that a safety car period would occur at that precise time between their stops that would allow him (with no merit on his part) to get ahead of Lewis. This was just a case of a fortunate break for GR and there’s nothing more to be read into it. Again, I’m not saying that GR hasn’t driven well—in fact, I think he’s a gifted driver who has the potential to be a multi-time WDC (and if he was driving the Ferrari I believe he would have accomplished much more with it than CL has).
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I agree that sometimes you make your own luck but other times you just get a lucky break that had nothing to do with anything in particular that you did. And sometimes people just consistently get some lucky breaks. We all know that the drivers are ultra-competitive and strive to be as high up the order as they can get. No driver actively plans to be behind his teammate and other drivers and thinks “OK, I’m smartly positioning myself behind these drivers so that a safety car will hopefully come out and hand me a free pit stop advantage over them.” Drivers don’t deliberately select to be behind others and no one knows when or if an incident that brings out a safety car will occur. Again, drivers just strive to get as high up the order as they can (except in some specific team order cases) and wherever they are, should a safety car period occur that happens to benefit certain drivers that’s just pure luck, not something that they had planned or actively positioned themselves for.
For much of his career, Lewis Hamilton has benefited from much of this "luck" himself. Events like San Marino 2021 (where he was a lap down and out of it, but the race was stopped after George Russell torpedoed Bottas' car), or Silverstone 2021, where he had a damaged car following the contact with Verstappen, but the stopped race allowed him to continue without any real loss, or the Monaco Grand Prix in 2011, where he lost his rear wing, but because the race was stopped, was repaired, and able to carry on.

Over the course of a season, this sort of "luck" tends to balance itself out.
 
Top Bottom