Ask The Apex
- Thread starter Galahad
- Start date
F1Yorkshire said:
No car has had 4 all season and won the WDC! Tyrell had cars 3 and 4 for so long...
The last time #4 won a race was Kimi Raikkonen at the 2009 Belgian GP. For the painful statistics fan, here's the lot:
Lewis is a big Senna fan, isn't he? Senna never had an odd number bar 1 on the front of his car, maybe Lewis (2, 22, 1, 2, 4) is going the same way!
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Reading TBY's comments on Johnny Cecotto in the 2011 silly season thread made we wonder how many F1 drivers had serious careers in other forms of motor sport before coming to F1, as opposed to the normal feeder series i.e. F3, F2, GP2. Cecotto was quite successful in Grand Prix bike racing as were Surtees and Hailwood. Have there been many (any) rally drivers who have moved into F1 or Sports car racers?
Oh, hang on, as I typed that I remembered Schumie and the Mercedes gang (Frentzen & Wendlinger?) started in Group C cars didn't they. How well did they do?
Any others?
Oh, hang on, as I typed that I remembered Schumie and the Mercedes gang (Frentzen & Wendlinger?) started in Group C cars didn't they. How well did they do?
Any others?
Andrea_Moda_Rules
Podium Finisher
sebastien bourdais had a successful Carrer in Champ cars before coming to F1, thats the first one that springs to mind. A few other drivers spent a couple of years in Champ cars before moving to F1. Perhaps not a long Carrer, but as many has Schumi and Co, in the Old Sportscars champ, Montoya, Villenurve. Mario Andretti spent years in america in variuos Cups before adding to F1 to the list.
Theres proberly loads more too, most from further back in histroy though has nowadays the only real way to F1 seems to be through the feeder series. and also lets face it, if youre 26 now looking for an F1 drive, apart from a drive at the back of the grid. your F1 carrer is finished before its started.
Theres proberly loads more too, most from further back in histroy though has nowadays the only real way to F1 seems to be through the feeder series. and also lets face it, if youre 26 now looking for an F1 drive, apart from a drive at the back of the grid. your F1 carrer is finished before its started.
Schumacher won two races in the World Sportscar Championship, both in Japan - sharing with Jochen Mass in 1990 and with fellow Mercedes Junior Karl Wendlinger in 1991. They were also second to Derek Warwick's Jaguar at Monza.
Going back to the 1960s and earlier, the single-seater ladder was less restrictive and most, if not all, drivers, participated in sportscar and saloon car races in addition to Formula Junior/Formula 3 on the way to F1. Jim Clark made his name in Jaguar D-types, and likewise Jackie Stewart's first racing successes were mainly in sportscars. Helmut Marko, the current eminence grise at Red Bull Racing, had already won the Le Mans 24 Hours for Porsche before making his Grand Prix debut.
Going back to the 1960s and earlier, the single-seater ladder was less restrictive and most, if not all, drivers, participated in sportscar and saloon car races in addition to Formula Junior/Formula 3 on the way to F1. Jim Clark made his name in Jaguar D-types, and likewise Jackie Stewart's first racing successes were mainly in sportscars. Helmut Marko, the current eminence grise at Red Bull Racing, had already won the Le Mans 24 Hours for Porsche before making his Grand Prix debut.
Just read an article by James 
Allen on the 2013 F1 regs and he mentions "active cooling" as being of interest to F1 engineers. Anyone one any idea what this is as JA neglects to go into any detail?
I have a vague recollection of Gordon Murray experimenting with heat exchangers instead of radiators on the Brabham's of the late 70's but soon gave up on this as the umpteenth Alfa engine exploded. Can't believe this is the same thing.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/12/a ... -f1-rules/
BT46 with heat exchangers.
Allen on the 2013 F1 regs and he mentions "active cooling" as being of interest to F1 engineers. Anyone one any idea what this is as JA neglects to go into any detail? I have a vague recollection of Gordon Murray experimenting with heat exchangers instead of radiators on the Brabham's of the late 70's but soon gave up on this as the umpteenth Alfa engine exploded. Can't believe this is the same thing.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/12/a ... -f1-rules/
BT46 with heat exchangers.
Water injection, used more as a quench, to prevent det. and raise the octane level of sub-100ron fuel to 100+ could be considered active cooling, yes, because it DOES have a cooling effect and is a high pressure pumped system, but that is not its objective. The word active simply means, 'with mechanical aid'.
F1 cars rely on motive force to force air through the radiators, all 'passive cooling'. No fans, motors or such like, they rely on speed to cool down,* whereas radiators with a fan, or compressor heat exchanger like a fridge or AC unit would be active cooling.
Your house has 'active heating' probably (pumped hot water to rads), but passive cooling.. you open the window, as opposed to 'active cooling', eg AC........ simples
*(hence JBs engine explosion and why it is so critical to get the correct blocks/tape ducts over the pods because they have to set up the 'holes' in the car to cool it. The big holes create massive drag, so they will run with as little open as possible so as to keep the engine at the correct temp, but at the same time keep as much aero efficiency as possible...)
F1 cars rely on motive force to force air through the radiators, all 'passive cooling'. No fans, motors or such like, they rely on speed to cool down,* whereas radiators with a fan, or compressor heat exchanger like a fridge or AC unit would be active cooling.
Your house has 'active heating' probably (pumped hot water to rads), but passive cooling.. you open the window, as opposed to 'active cooling', eg AC........ simples
*(hence JBs engine explosion and why it is so critical to get the correct blocks/tape ducts over the pods because they have to set up the 'holes' in the car to cool it. The big holes create massive drag, so they will run with as little open as possible so as to keep the engine at the correct temp, but at the same time keep as much aero efficiency as possible...)
Have they written anything in the regs preventing the use of additional fans in the side pods to aid cooling but were installed to create downforce? I'm sure Bernie's had a go at it before and wasn't there a Can-Am car that used a couple of leaf blowers in the back.
Yeah, F1 teams are forced to use passive cooling, and apart from the aero drag, they use very very little power.
Lol, Chaparral 2J, look it up and drool... It used an all out snow mobile engine..... just for the FANS!
He (Jim Hall) was simply the best American automotive innovator/designer ever IMHO. You see what he was doing in the 60s, and compare it to their car industry of ever since and it seems they have taken continual steps to unlearn everything they were ever shown and produce crap, badly made, badly designed, badly assembled rubbish with 10 000 parts all made by the lowest bidder, on purpose!
Its like watching BL allllllll over again..
Lol, Chaparral 2J, look it up
and drool... It used an all out snow mobile engine..... just for the FANS! He (Jim Hall) was simply the best American automotive innovator/designer ever IMHO. You see what he was doing in the 60s, and compare it to their car industry of ever since and it seems they have taken continual steps to unlearn everything they were ever shown and produce crap, badly made, badly designed, badly assembled rubbish with 10 000 parts all made by the lowest bidder, on purpose!
Its like watching BL allllllll over again..
Thanks guys. Having had a little trawl thourgh the net I came across active cooling in relation to computers and also on the rear differential on the SLS used as the F1 safety car. I get the feeling it means targeted cooling in areas when it is needed to maximise the efficiency of the components so, for example, when the KERS button is pressed it places greater strains on parts of the drive train and at those times additional cooling (or heating) might be required to make them work at their best.
You have to wonder why this isn't already done, unless the regs don't allow it.
You have to wonder why this isn't already done, unless the regs don't allow it.
Well, as i said, active simply means 'with mechanical aid'. So any cooling that uses such, is 'active'
An old air cooled motorbike has a passive cooling system, it relies purely on motion forcing air between the fins of the block, where the air cooledHitler spawn beetle has an active cooling system, a ducted fan.
Active cooling was banned due to teams using it to increase performance i believe, as you originally suggested, like the BT46...
An old air cooled motorbike has a passive cooling system, it relies purely on motion forcing air between the fins of the block, where the air cooled
Active cooling was banned due to teams using it to increase performance i believe, as you originally suggested, like the BT46...
RBR have been accused of overspending on their budget. I highly doubt it's true, but what woud happen if that was the case? Would they just be forced into a very small budget for this year, or i its big enough have points stripped, Is it too late for this to happen? My mind goes back to Brazil 03 were Fisi was awarded the race victory a couple of weeks later. I thought we had seen the last of these allegations...
The rule that RBR are alleged to have broken is only part of the Resource Restriction Agreement (RRA), essentially a gentlemen's agreement between the FOTA teams. It's not a formal regulation.
As the RRA is top secret, the nature of any penalties that there may be for breaking the rules is a total mystery.
As the RRA is top secret, the nature of any penalties that there may be for breaking the rules is a total mystery.
Muddytalker
Points Scorer
Getting back to 'before they was in F1', Gilles Villeneuve was of course a snowmobile racer, and his brother went on to be champion a few times I think.
A question for all you engineering, techy geeks out there. The new Ferrari has a push-rod suspension (like the Red bull had last year) what benefit does this bring to the car compared to the more usual pull-rod system the teams have employed over recent years?
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