Ask The Apex

[teabagyokel]

Or more likely that the website is obviously a bit crap since Schumacher took second place.

He may have done but he was disqualified. He ignored the 5 second penalty, was given the black flag, so he decided to take his 5 second penalty and ignore the black flag. He was, after the event, disqualified from the Grand Prix and given a 2 race ban.

With Schumacher and Briatore involved, the potential for cheating was obvious!

 

[Incubus]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that!
Does this mean I'm a bit crap then???

 

[TN23]

The F1 website has Schumacher shown as Disqualified after 60 laps, was this because of the overtake on the warm-up lap?

He was originally given a five second stop/go, but Benetton did not accept the penalty and told Schumacher to stay out. Schumacher was then black flagged, and Benetton pulled him in, only for the stop/go, and continued to the end- finishing in second place, but was disqualified retrospectively.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

He was originally given a five second stop/go, but Benetton did not accept the penalty and told Schumacher to stay out. Schumacher was then black flagged, and Benetton pulled him in, only for the stop/go, and continued to the end- finishing in second place, but was disqualified retrospectively.

On a small technical note, I'm thinking that Schumacher wasn't disqualified retrospectively; he was in fact disqualified at the time the black flag was shown. He just chose to ignore it.

 

[Slyboogy]

Did Schumache overtake Hill then give the position back on the parade lap? Because then I don't understand how he managed to get a penalty for that seen it happen a lot with never a penalty given.

 

[teabagyokel]

Did Schumache overtake Hill then give the position back on the parade lap? Because then I don't understand how he managed to get a penalty for that seen it happen a lot with never a penalty given.

Don't know why he was penalised, just know not taking your penalty is prompting the stewards to bring out the black flag, and ignoring that is going to chafe at the Place de la Concorde.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that!
Does this mean I'm a bit crap then???

No, just human. Whether being human makes one crap is not for me to decide.

 

[FB]

On the parade lap the cars are required to stay in grid order. Schumie passed Hill and then dropped back into 2nd place but it was a clear breach of the rules, hence why he was penalised and then disqualified.

From our good friends at Wiki:

The stewards fined Benetton $25,000 and gave the team and their driver Michael Schumacher a severe reprimand for ignoring Schumacher's 5 second stop-go penalty and the subsequent black flag. On July 26, the FIA World Motorsport Council increased the penalty to a $500,000 fine for the team and a 2 race ban for Schumacher. The WMSC also disqualified Schumacher from his second place at the British Grand Prix. The penalty was upheld on appeal on August 30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_British_Grand_Prix

 

[Brian_W_Lawrence]

When was the last time a stop/go penalty was issued? I'm thinking sometime in the 90's

I think in another thread I queried a couple of longer pit
stops earlier this season (Perez in Chinese GP), and was told
(by KeketheKing?) that they were stop/go penalties. I think
it was for causing a collision with Sutil.

 

[Brogan]

Buemi also had a stop go at the Malaysian GP for speeding in the pit lane.

 

[Brian_W_Lawrence]

I think in another thread I queried a couple of longer pit
stops earlier this season (Perez in Chinese GP), and was told
(by KekeTheKing?) that they were stop/go penalties. I think
it was for causing a collision with Sutil.

Having reviewed a recording, I'm doubtful that Perez had any stop&go penalties.
Brundle referred to a 'drive through' as did the on-screen announcment of the
penalty. The Pirelli summary shows two DT penalties on laps 48 & 50, but both
stops lasted well over 20s. I think that the first related to a collision with Heidfeld
and the second to another one with Sutil. I haven't found any reports that confirm
this though.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Brian, when I saw your post about the long Drive-Throughs I did a search for info on those stops and found a couple sites reporting that one of Perez' penalties was a Stop/Go. They didn't link the FIA source document though, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.

Perez received both a drive-through penalty and a ten second stop/go in the race for two incidents. “Most importantly I’m very sorry for the accident with Adrian (Sutil) – I am sorry for him and sorry for my team,” said the apologetic Mexican.

http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2011/04/sauber-collect-a-point-from-action-packed-chinese-race/

Then in China on Sunday, Perez incurred two penalties - a drive through and a 10-second stop-go - for separate racing incidents.

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=formula1/11/04/21/AUTO_Sauber.html

 

[Brogan]

These are my notes from the Chinese GP.

Vitantonia Liuzzi given a drive through penalty for a jump start
Sergio Perez given a drive through penalty for causing a collision with Vitantonio Liuzzi
Sergio Perez given a stop-go for?

I must have written the last entry for a reason, but if I remember correctly there were no documents made available on the FIA website so I couldn't confirm it.

 

[KekeTheKing]

There was definitely some confusion around that penalty, this from the "Fanatic"

His second penalty appears to have been for his collision with Nick Heidfeld. An FIA stewards’ statement (PDF link) says no action was taken, however the team believe that is what the penalty was issued for.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/04/18/2011-chinese-grand-prix-sauber/

 

[Brian_W_Lawrence]

Thanks guys. I think that his collision with Heidfeld was
'under investigation' on screen, but didn't see any
confirmation of a penalty.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Mercedes here, confirming the fact that we've had 4 Stop/Go penalties this year.

In nine races, there have been a total of 560 pit stops (this raw total includes penalties). Of these, 11 have been drive-through penalties and four have been ten-second stop-go penalties.

http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-...01-614322-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html?TS=1311080242512

 

[Brian_W_Lawrence]

Here's my summary of 'pit stops' this season so far.
RF - changed tyres under red flag conditions
DT - drive through
SG - stop & go

[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000080][FONT=courier new]Driver         P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7    Tot  RF  DT  SG

======================================================

S Vettel        9  9  6  3              27   2

M Webber        9  9  9  4              31   2

L Hamilton      8  8  7  4              27   1   1

J Button        9  9  9  2  1  1  1     32   2   1

F Alonso        9  9  8  4              30   2

F Massa         9  8  7  2  1           27   1

M Schumacher    9  8  7  2  1           27   1       1

N Rosberg       9  8  7  3  1           28   2

N Heidfeld      9  9  6  1              25   2

V Petrov        9  8  5  1              23   1

R Barrichello   9  9  6  3  1           28   2   1

P Maldonado     7  7  7  3  1  1        26   2   1

A Sutil         9  9  7  1  1           27   1   1[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000080][FONT=courier new]P di Resta      9  9  7  3  1           29   2   2

K Kobayashi     9  9  3                 21   2       1

S Perez *       8  5  4  2              19   1   1   2

S Buemi         9  9  7  1  1           27   2   1

J Alguersuari   9  8  4  3              24   1

H Kovalainen    8  7  4                 19   2

J Trulli        8  7  4  1  1           21   2

N Karthikeyan * 7  6  5                 18   2

V Liuzzi        8  7  5  2              22   2   1

T Glock         8  7  3                 18   1

J d'Ambrosio    9  9  3  1  1  1        24   2   1

-----------------------------------------------------

              206 193 140 46 11 3 1    600  40  11  4

Notes: Perez & Karthikeyan figures include those for
de la Rosa in Canada and Ricciardo in Britain.
Sutil's figures exclude the Canadian red flag 'stop'
because he did not change tyres. I'm not saying it
needs to be excluded, it's just different to the 40
other red flag 'stops'.

My total of stop & go penalties IS 4, but that includes
two for Perez in China, which appears to be confirmed by
the Mercedes summary, BUT the first stop was definitely
a drive through. On screen we saw Perez drive through
without stopping - no team members were in the pit lane,
and the on-screen graphic said 'Drive thru'.

To double check I've looked at the live timimg archive
at formula1.com, where the commentary includes:

Lap 44/56 - replays show contact between Heidfeld &
Perez ...

Lap 47/56 - replays show Perez sliding wide into Sutil
....

Lap 49/56 - Perez gets a drive-through penalty for that
collision with Sutil.

Lap 49/56 - Perez pits to take his drive-through penalty.

On lap 50 - we believe that Perez's penalty was for his
earlier contact with Heidfeld ...

No mention of his seco9nd stop/penalty.

Going back to a recording - on lap 50 (for the leader)
an on-screen graphic says 'Incident involving cars 14
and 17 under investigation' (Sutil 14, Perez 17). The
penalty decision isn't shown and we don't see Perez's
second visit to the pitlane. It's easy to imagine that
a second offence within six laps would be worth a
more severe penalty.

I note that the Mercedes summary is also on formula1.com.

 

[Brian_W_Lawrence]

Reviewing some of the data I noticed that the official pit stop time
for the first Perez stop was, in fact, 13.900s, which is entirely
consistent with a simple drive through while the second stop was
28.845s, which is almost certainly a stop & go. I seem to have
been confused somewhere along the way.

Perhaps there is a fourth stop & go somewhere.

 

[mjo]

There were 32 starters in the 1961 Italian GP. Has there ever been any more starters in a GP?

 

[Brogan]

If you include the Indy 500, they all had 33 starters.