Grand Prix 2019 Austrian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Angel

Pole Sitter
Contributor
The one thing I did enjoy was seeing Vettel pass Hamilton on track for position. Not that we saw it clearly, but it was a nice moment for a change.

It was a pretty good race all in all, I have said what I felt about that pass by Max on Leclerc elsewhere. The point is Max drove well especially after that bad start he made. He did deserve the win too. I just don't understand how the penalty system works anymore, I seriously don't. That is the thing that irks me more than anything else how some drivers 'get away' with moves like that and others, don't.
 
Interesting decision. I can see the argument that both Canada and this incident was illegal. I can also see the argument that neither Canada nor this incident were illegal. I am not sure I can see the argument that Canada was illegal and this was legal. I definitely cannot see the argument that Canada was legal and this was illegal.
IMHO the stewards made the right call yesterday, Verstappen shouldn't have been penalized.

I am also speechless at Hamilton's penalty for his misunderstanding with Kimi on Saturday, IMHO he shouldn't have been penalized

Having said that I think that the stewards were wrong with both Vettel in Canada and Ricciardo in France, I hope that they have seen the light and going forward they will allow those guys to race
 
One thing that bugged me silly this weekend and it was highlighted by how good the racing was is how bad the coverage of it was.
I was in Londiunium for the week end and I watched the race on Ch4.... :disappointed: I just can't quite understand why they waste so much time before and after the race with stuff other than the racing, they should show the whole race and not only a bits here and there rather than some silly interviews.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
I hope that they have seen the light and going forward they will allow those guys to race
yes I hope this is the new consistency, rules will be amended for blatant acts & its just desperately unlucky that Ferrari have been on the wrong side of "old" & "new" interpretation

but did you see Rosberg showing everyone that his Canada point was as pointless as we thought because all of sudden he now all for a bit of racing funny that anyone would think he was biased towards Mercedes. & even vettel in post race interview was on Verstappen "side" as he was all for letting drivers race
 
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F1Brits_90

Race Winner
just for balance after RasputinLives cool godfather quote, ill share the uncool lady gaga quote, "I've got a hundred million reasons to walk away. But I just need 1 good one to stay"
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
IMHO the stewards made the right call yesterday, Verstappen shouldn't have been penalized.

I am also speechless at Hamilton's penalty for his misunderstanding with Kimi on Saturday, IMHO he shouldn't have been penalized

Having said that I think that the stewards were wrong with both Vettel in Canada and Ricciardo in France, I hope that they have seen the light and going forward they will allow those guys to race
Yea, I am not sure they have resolved all their rule problems. Now....is it OK to dive deep into a corner and push the outside car off the track? I have not gone through all the rulings related to those types of incidents in the last few years, but suspect that had been penalized before.
 

Angel

Pole Sitter
Contributor
I don't care if they hand out penalties for that kind of move or not, it's up to them. All I care about it is that whatever they decide is done for everyone. You can't have some drivers being handed a penalty only to see another driver do pretty much the same thing the next weekend and no penalty being handed down.

Consistency people, that is what we need in these situations no matter who the driver is that is deemed to be 'at fault' or who the 'victim' is.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
I was in Londiunium for the week end and I watched the race on Ch4.... :disappointed: I just can't quite understand why they waste so much time before and after the race with stuff other than the racing, they should show the whole race and not only a bits here and there rather than some silly interviews.
Sadly Publius Cornelius Scipio it's all in the contract with Sky. Channel 4 are only contractlly able to show 1 hour of race footage. They are not allowed to do a grid walk and may only interview in the round with all the other TV companies. This restricts the amount they can show 'as live' in a two hour slot.
 
Yea, I am not sure they have resolved all their rule problems. Now....is it OK to dive deep into a corner and push the outside car off the track? I have not gone through all the rulings related to those types of incidents in the last few years, but suspect that had been penalized before.
similar moves have been penalized many times before, if you remember back in 2016 Rosberg was penalized at that very same corner because he moved on the inside of Hamilton, Hamilton turned in and the stewards ruled that Rosberg shouldn't have been there, he had missed the apex and so he was vicous, yesterday Vertsppen missed the apex (something that can easily happen under those circumstances) and they were fine with it.

Seriously I hope that this time they have realised that they need consistency
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Seriously I hope that this time they have realised that they need consistency
Definitely. But they also need to decide exactly what they are going to enforce. Is it now OK to dive deep into a corner and push the outside car off the track? Is this going to be the norm? How does it work on the first lap?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
How does it work on the first lap?
There was an unwritten rule that first corner incidents of that nature would not be penalised, due to how manic starts are.

Until Fuji 2008 when Hamilton was penalised for forcing Räikkönen wide.
 

Izumi

Banned
I am not sure why anyone thinks F1 will change anything right now. There was more noise than usual in Canada, however it made no impression on stewards two weeks later. Whenever anyone made them accountable for wrong calls? In fact they are known to go berserk when someone dares them, imposing even harsher penalties. Such threats I would expect to happen in North Korea's penal system, but FiA apparently can do it too. I do not trust people who claim infallibility, unless you live in Vatican.

Maybe they considered last Canada and Austria incidents as totally dissimilar, and therefore not judged by the same measures. It would nice therefore for FiA to explain basis for those two decisions, and how they differ from each other, because these kind of things go beyond "nothing to see here, move on", as someone suggested on this forum already.
 
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cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Maybe they considered last Canada and Austria incidents as totally dissimilar, and therefore not judged by the same measures. It would nice therefore for FiA to explain basis for those two decisions, and how they differ from each other, because these kind of things go beyond "nothing to see here, move on", as someone suggested on this forum already.
As you requested:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/07/01/fia-rejects-claims-of-inconsistency-in-canada-and-austria-penalty-decisions/
 

Izumi

Banned
Thank you, but that explanation seems totally nonsensical. Masi claims that main difference between both incidents were situational circumstances. Vettel went off, Verstappen was on track. I thought more substantive argument should be made how much control over vehicle each driver had to avoid the incident.

I would say Verstappen action was quite deliberate, and he could have avoided contact, had he wanted to. Space was there for him.

Vettel was racing too, something happen and when in error he shot across grass, trajectory vector when re-entering on to track was pretty much set for him.

Point is, I am not going to rehash whole Canada incident again, but Masi has to do better job talking sense. If he wanted to say that Vettel had duty to slot behind Hamilton, he should know there is no such rule. Masi's explanation just adds to (my) confusion.
 

RasputinLives

So Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Contributor
You know what makes no sense to me? Gasly being lapped by Verstappen. Where did all his speed from practice go? Wasn't like he was stuck behind anyone really either.
 
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