Grand Prix 2018 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

MONZA.
The Autodromo Nazionale Monza. "The Temple of Speed." I suspect the second name is the Tifosi name for Monza. But with very good reason. It was built for speed, it was incredibly fast, and they have been slowing it down since 1933.
It was built in 1922, financed by the Milan Automobile Club. What they built for their fast circuit, was a banked oval linked to a road circuit. Obviously the racing car of the day that was slung off the oval onto the road section produced high speeds and spectacular viewing. We can only dream what that would look like with a modern F1 car. BUT .. by 1932 it had killed 9 drivers and 27 spectators. Obviously even the most fanatical speed merchant realised that things had to change.They stopped using the oval, introduced the Lesmo curves on the road section and started to introduce stands for the spectators. But then WW11 intervened , and all racing stopped at Monza.

Post war the circuit was totally revamped, and for whatever reason they reintroduced the high speed banked oval. The circuit was fully operational by 1955, and by now it was used by F1. Races were won by the likes of Moss, Hill, Fangio and Brooks. But in 1961 the racing driver Von Tripp and 15 spectators all died in one crash, and F1 abandoned the use of the oval, using only the road circuit. The oval was finally abandoned for all racing in 1969.
However the road circuit itself was still incredibly fast, and in the 1970's the first chicanes were introduced, the Variant del Rettifilo and the Variant Ascari, neither of which had the required effect. In the next few years the efforts to slow the circuit down as the cars got faster, introduced us to the, Vialone, Curve Grande and the della Reggia. All very familiar to us in 2018, but by now 48 years old. Most of them have been altered a little, moved slightly, generally messed around with, and a few more added for good luck, the curve del Serraglio and the Parabolica. Listen to the race commentary you'll hear most of them tripping of someones tongue.
But it remains a fast circuit, not nearly as fast as it once was. The old Oval is gently rotting in the trees behind todays' circuit, perhaps that's where the "The Temple of Speed" is. Todays modern circuit is a "Temple to the Tifosi" (my quote). It's still suited to cars that can go flat out, at high speed, and not fall apart, and we all know who they are. So all those curves and variants have been designed in such a way as to apply the letter of the law without adhering to it. Very Italian.
I'm obviously putting this up before we know what happened at Spa, as we only have a few days before the next round of PQR, and before we know the full outcome of the driver moveathon. Whatever has happened I hope it will throw up some interesting discussion. Most of all, I really hope that Monza and it's history plus the mad Tifosi will give us a good race.
 
Last edited:

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
I also happen to believe that Vettel knew that he had to keep ahead of Hamilton yesterday

but this is Singapore all over again. he has no concept of a championship. if this was Verstappen he would be getting slaughtered by media. because whats 3rd instead of 2nd on lap 1. he risked everything for 1 place & lost 18. same in Singapore he needlessly risked everything v non rival instead of taking 10/12pts out of lewis taking battle to abu dhabi. he lost 25 losing it in mexico
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Did you know that after last year's Singapore Grand Prix that Lewis Hamilton said he would have done the exact same thing as Vettel off the start? In fact he does on most of his pole starts. It's the squeeze they all do it. Kimi did it on Sunday. The difference on that occasion, and it has happened many times before, is that Verstappen was alongside Kimi and unsighted by Vettel. 99 times out of 100 he would have taken the line and the lead. It is actually quite obvious when you look at it. It doesn't really fit the narrative people are looking for with Vettel though so it's talked about like it was some huge error.
 

because whats 3rd instead of 2nd on lap 1.

overtaking Hamilton is easier said than done, and as I said earlier yesterday Hamilton had nothing to lose, if they both went out he would still be ahead in the standings with fewer points available to the end of the season, IMHO Vettel was right in trying to be ahead of Hamilton, the point is that with these kerbs I don't recall 2 cars taking the Roggia side by side without banging wheels, what Vettel could have done differently was being more aggressive in his defence under braking or before they turned in, once he allowed Hamilton to turn in Vettel had 2 options, either he spun or he would crash into Hamilton
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
RasputinLives there was no need for vettel to go 3/4 to the left espically when you want to be in middle or the right for the turn, & he needs to look in his mirrors just because it usually safe doesn't mean its always safe. he should've let max go
 

P1

Pole Sitter
I don't know why everyone was expecting Kimi to pull over for Vettel and acting as if Ferrari failed to give team orders. There is a sense it is too early for team orders. Mercedes has also not given team orders, and the same issue could have arisen if the Mercedes were in that position. Granted Mercedes did USE Bottas to help Hamilton later in the race, but that strategy was after Bottas was out of contention for a win, and it did help Bottas for the podium because it created a tire disparity that would enable him to attack Max. It was a win-win.

Here is an extract from a recent Autosport interview with Wolff last Thursday.

When asked after the Belgian GP if now was the right time to give Bottas number two status, Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff replied: "I hate to do that. It is completely against my racing instinct. We try to be very neutral to both drivers and we haven't done it yet, and we haven't discussed it. Let's see how Monza pans out and how it goes, and then we will address the question of whether we need to put all force behind one driver. And we owe it to the two men and F1 to not interfere in the racing."

Also quoting Vettel on Saturday

"If he is starting from pole I guess he is allowed to win," said Vettel. "It is a long race, he wants to win, I want to win. So hopefully one of us will win."

Neither team issued team orders. Vettel needed to drive for the win, he was less cautious than he should have been, and fell out of contention.

Final quote from Nico Rosberg.

"I think it was 100% Sebastian's fault. Lewis left him enough room. Over and over he keeps making these mistakes. That's not how you are going to beat Lewis Hamilton to a world championship." Nico Rosberg on Sky Sports.
 
Last edited:

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Question: How many mistakes has Vettel made this season (I heard the commentators discussing 4 or 5) versus how many mistakes has Hamilton made this season?
 

olegg

Race Winner
It's too early to say for sure about anyone's championship this season.
There is still 7 races left and anything can happen.
And I think the Hamilton avoids such issues, because it already knows
that it is associated with excessive psychological pressure
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Publius Cornelius Scipio The driver management and pit wall strategy at Ferrari has been poor this season. There are some inexperienced engineers in the Ferrari pitlane not use to this pressure and the spaghetti culture of Ferrari kicking in.

Lets face it is not only this race Vettel should be a country mile ahead in the championship. He maybe the No 1 in the team but it does not seem like the team on the pitwall seems to be managing him like a No 1. Every mistake and missed opportunity he has is simply magnifying his problems

Vettel - is lacking the coolness of a Prost or a Schumacher in the pressure situations in getting the team together. Vettel is paying for his own calls to have Raikkonen has No 2 because he did not want an internal threat but it is hurting him in that Raikkonen is not taking points away from Hamilton
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Rosberg whilst he is praising Hamilton who deserves the credit because it was a race he should not have won yesterday at the same time is very damning in his verdict of Vettel.

To be fair Vettel has not got many excuses ... the only one he could have which he would not dare say in public is the team is not backing him enough
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Rosberg has never forgiven Vettel for embarrassing him in the press conference that time when Seb called him out on the 'we really want Ferrari up at the front racing us' PR bullshit.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
I thinking easier & its shows that overall is probally 1 of the worst decades for F1 entertainment. But correct if wrong as really only know 90, 00 & this decade. But considering 2012 & 2018 have been interesting in both gps & title race. 2010 was a good title race but terrible races. Rest were domination
 

Clay

Test Driver
Rosberg whilst he is praising Hamilton who deserves the credit because it was a race he should not have won yesterday
Bottas helped him win without Bottas and Mercedes' strategy of doing the opposite of Ferrari he wouldn't of managed to take the victory.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
RasputinLives I am trying to remember which race that was

I think it was first or second race of 2016. Merc were a country mile ahead of everyone anyway and were doing the whole 'I wish Ferrari were closer for the show' crap they do. Rosberg said it and Vettel asked if that was the case could he come to the teams technical briefing. Nico was not happy.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Interesting and I think meaningful article on the Ferrari power advantage at Monza: Has Ferrari truly overpowered Mercedes?

The highlight: "Deeper insight into Ferrari's supremacy revealed they are using electric energy for a longer period than their opponents in the early acceleration phase - corner exists."

Anyhow, I am guessing that:
1. Ferrari will have an advantage at Singapore
2. And that this may be a difference in performance that Mercedes can quickly engineer to match.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
And finally.

3. It won't make a hill of beans difference to Ferrari or Seb's chances of winning the title because, as has been the case for years now, Ferrari and their drivers, seem to come up with a whole host of ways of chucking the title down the drain.
 
Top Bottom