Football 2014 FIFA World Cup
- Thread starter teabagyokel
- Start date
What makes me laugh is England have only played two matches and already there are calls for Hodgson to quit if he isn't up to the job maybe they should have known this before the world cup, mind England going out in the first round was totally predictable in my opinion, actually I believe I did predict it..
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Mephistopheles - The England manager generally doesn't have any tolerance from the fourth estate for Group Stage exits.
And to be fair, people can defend him and say what they like about the quality of England's players. They had the same opposition as Costa Rica, who got 2 wins. Now if you're saying England's players are worse than Costa Rica's, well...
What really doesn't make sense is aping Liverpool's defensive midfield structure. Liverpool cannot defend. Gerrard's performance was the worst example of defensive midfield football I have seen since Gerrard against Chelsea.
And to be fair, people can defend him and say what they like about the quality of England's players. They had the same opposition as Costa Rica, who got 2 wins. Now if you're saying England's players are worse than Costa Rica's, well...
What really doesn't make sense is aping Liverpool's defensive midfield structure. Liverpool cannot defend. Gerrard's performance was the worst example of defensive midfield football I have seen since Gerrard against Chelsea.
And I'm sorry but Rooneys on target rate for a supposed centre forward was shocking! Hodgson had a bench full of decent (Southampton) forwards but hey ho...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7
For me Costa Rica have been the surprise of the tournament and the fact that there are calls for Hodgson to quit isn't the bit that makes me laugh its the fact that he got the job in the first place that is hilarious, Christ they have put some prize pricks in that job recently England used to be a feared team now we are a bloody joke other teams welcome being in a group with us it's an easy buy for them...
A man after your own heart Greenlantern101
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ving-Saltire-cheering-heart-Uruguay-fans.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ving-Saltire-cheering-heart-Uruguay-fans.html
Its all we've got seeing our national team is so shit.
soccerman17
Race Winner
That Ghana-Germany game was incredible in the second half! And Argentina-Iran with a thrilling ending as well. What a goal by Messi and what a defensive effort by Iran, only 110 completed passes by the whole team yet still could have reasonably won the game! As for yesterday well Costa Rica sure can play, these results are not a fluke. Switzerland forgot to play defense but they should be able to beat Honduras and make it through, given France beats Ecuador. If France keeps playing the way they have been then that should be a given but Ecuador is a pesky little team that would be a serious contender had Christian Benitez not passed away last year.
I sort of do and don't blame Hodgson. Gerrard can't defend and shouldn't be considered for a mid-sized pub team in that position. Against Italy, he detailed Sterling to stop Pirlo, which is utterly bizarre because if I laboratory built an attacking midfielder/winger to do a covering/marking job, I'd end up with James Milner.
There is this culture of picking players for the sake of it, rather than picking players for their job in the team. England have a whole lot of good-but-not-great players in all the positions, but it seems to me that they have this idea of someone meriting selection in an International Match, rather than players picked in an attempt to actually win the game.
This affliction is not just England, Spain played with a team which had no idea what they were out there for. They could be a passing side - in which case Diego Costa shouldn't have been on the pitch. They could be a counter attack side, in which case the choices of both Pique (chosen for his on-ball skill rather than off-ball) and Martinez (who is a midfielder) at centre-back is poor. Casillas, interestingly, picked far more on reputation too, and made a string of total cock-ups.
So even for the best collection of individual footballers in the tournament, this lack of clarity of purpose was fatal. To play the same side to counter-attack and then to dictate the play is unforgivable. If you want to counter-attack, Rooney slows down the other attackers, and Milner would be a better option. To dictate the play, Wilshere is the best player for the job, and Welbeck is not very good in that position.
The lack of any defensive midfielders in the squad is very poor, too. Gareth Barry and Michael Carrick are old, and far from perfect, but miles better than totally ignoring the existence of a key position in a football match!
The other thing is, Gerrard/Lampard's little pep talk, telling the England youngsters what it feels like to get knocked out of the World Cup. Against Uruguay, suddenly they played with fear. And Uruguay were not good, and Suarez was not a genius. He was given two goals by piss-poor defending by his club-mate.
There is this culture of picking players for the sake of it, rather than picking players for their job in the team. England have a whole lot of good-but-not-great players in all the positions, but it seems to me that they have this idea of someone meriting selection in an International Match, rather than players picked in an attempt to actually win the game.
This affliction is not just England, Spain played with a team which had no idea what they were out there for. They could be a passing side - in which case Diego Costa shouldn't have been on the pitch. They could be a counter attack side, in which case the choices of both Pique (chosen for his on-ball skill rather than off-ball) and Martinez (who is a midfielder) at centre-back is poor. Casillas, interestingly, picked far more on reputation too, and made a string of total cock-ups.
So even for the best collection of individual footballers in the tournament, this lack of clarity of purpose was fatal. To play the same side to counter-attack and then to dictate the play is unforgivable. If you want to counter-attack, Rooney slows down the other attackers, and Milner would be a better option. To dictate the play, Wilshere is the best player for the job, and Welbeck is not very good in that position.
The lack of any defensive midfielders in the squad is very poor, too. Gareth Barry and Michael Carrick are old, and far from perfect, but miles better than totally ignoring the existence of a key position in a football match!
The other thing is, Gerrard/Lampard's little pep talk, telling the England youngsters what it feels like to get knocked out of the World Cup. Against Uruguay, suddenly they played with fear. And Uruguay were not good, and Suarez was not a genius. He was given two goals by piss-poor defending by his club-mate.
It's better this way than actually scrabbling through to the semis only to lose on a penalty shoot-out against <name-any-team-you-like>.
teabagyokel Interesting that you mentioned Diego Costa. The Brazilian born player played for his national side but after playing in Spain for over 5 years he was awarded dual nationality and somehow was eligible to also play for Spain. The Brazilian fans certainly didn't like it but surely there are some international superstars that have been playing in our country for over 5 years.
Obviously it's not a route we would really want to go down but the state of the English team is aBi-Annual Biennial joke.
Edit:
Thanks Bill Boddy for your correction, I knew it was one or the other and just guessed.
Obviously it's not a route we would really want to go down but the state of the English team is a
Edit:
Thanks Bill Boddy for your correction, I knew it was one or the other and just guessed.
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F1Yorkshire - Yes. Mikel Arteta jumps out.
For once, assuming Tuesday doesn't end badly, England will return from a major tournament without having been embarassingly outplayed by any of their opponents. That's progress in my book, and once the remaining deadwood is cleared out there are reasons for cautious optimism.
They aren't going to win anything ever, though.
They aren't going to win anything ever, though.
If a team as pitiful and talentless as Greece in 2004 can win tournaments, then England have it in their means to do so.
They need a plan.
They need a plan.
No England manager would last five minutes employing the Greek plan. Until the FA address the facilities and coaching for kids the team will still comprise a disproportionate number of cloggers. And unfortunately both the climate and the government are against them.
Overpaid cloggers at that...
Personally, I think that the issue is far more deep rooted.
As a father of a (biased opinion possibly) reasonably talented footballer, who plays for a local club team, and in the advanced squad for MK dons, there seems to be a big problem with what the way forward is for development, this goes from under 10's upwards. There are a lot of talented kids about, who simply lack the direction and identity with regards to what is expected of them, so much so that there is a massive disconnect even between different coaches at the same club.
I dont blame any of our players, nor any of the coaching staff, the issue is far more fundamental in my opinion. There is a culture of bringing a disparate group of variably talented players together, expecting them to know what to do in a very short space of time, which does not happen.
dare I say it, sometimes the smaller countries can have less of a disadvantage, as they focus on one area of sport, rather than trying to be all things to all people, they also tend to have a "national football identity" which can be called upon to link the parts together. Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, heck, most of the South American nations all play a style of football which can be understood. With refinement, players can be brought together based on this style, and know what it is that they are trying to achieve. this provides a strong base for a coach to work with.
The England manager has talent to call upon, in some areas, but then mostly struggle to bring that talent together.
If at the grass roots level there is no coherent strategy to football development in this country, we are going to turn out some good footballers, who with time and patienence can work fabulously at club level, but I fear a strong national side may be unachievable, unless we pick a team of players who fit the design for the national team, who are good enough.
I am probably not explaining myself very well, but I can see the problems, as one who is struggling to understand the reasons for my child being confused by irrationally complex training exercises, and not seeing an overall plan for development which can be evaluated, it may take some time to work this one out, if it is even possible.
As a father of a (biased opinion possibly) reasonably talented footballer, who plays for a local club team, and in the advanced squad for MK dons, there seems to be a big problem with what the way forward is for development, this goes from under 10's upwards. There are a lot of talented kids about, who simply lack the direction and identity with regards to what is expected of them, so much so that there is a massive disconnect even between different coaches at the same club.
I dont blame any of our players, nor any of the coaching staff, the issue is far more fundamental in my opinion. There is a culture of bringing a disparate group of variably talented players together, expecting them to know what to do in a very short space of time, which does not happen.
dare I say it, sometimes the smaller countries can have less of a disadvantage, as they focus on one area of sport, rather than trying to be all things to all people, they also tend to have a "national football identity" which can be called upon to link the parts together. Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, heck, most of the South American nations all play a style of football which can be understood. With refinement, players can be brought together based on this style, and know what it is that they are trying to achieve. this provides a strong base for a coach to work with.
The England manager has talent to call upon, in some areas, but then mostly struggle to bring that talent together.
If at the grass roots level there is no coherent strategy to football development in this country, we are going to turn out some good footballers, who with time and patienence can work fabulously at club level, but I fear a strong national side may be unachievable, unless we pick a team of players who fit the design for the national team, who are good enough.
I am probably not explaining myself very well, but I can see the problems, as one who is struggling to understand the reasons for my child being confused by irrationally complex training exercises, and not seeing an overall plan for development which can be evaluated, it may take some time to work this one out, if it is even possible.
Dreadful draw for the Americans. Michael Bradley is just terrible. Dude missed an open net goal basically and then sloppily gives the ball away with 20 seconds left directly leading to the late equalizer. Somewhere his dad, the former US coach, is terribly torn.
A loss to Germany and a big Ghanaian win certainly wouldn't shock me.
A loss to Germany and a big Ghanaian win certainly wouldn't shock me.
Many years ago the England football team had never lost to a non-home nations team when playing at home. Then along came a Hungarian team. The England players looked at them in amazement; how could such unfit looking players expect to be in for anything other than than a gigantic defeat.
Then they kicked off. The Hungarian players were all out of position, the commentator was puzzled by things like the number 9 was not playing in the centre forward position, they were all over the place, except for the goalkeeper. At the end of the match England had been trounced 3-6; these unfit players were extremely good ball players, their unusual playing positions made for flexibility; they seemed to have at least two extra players on the field.
The one thing that didn't happen was England learning a lesson. Fit men in their allotted positions (the opposition knowing exactly what they would do) who could boot a ball continued to rule. I don't think that they have ever really learnt their lesson at international level.
Then they kicked off. The Hungarian players were all out of position, the commentator was puzzled by things like the number 9 was not playing in the centre forward position, they were all over the place, except for the goalkeeper. At the end of the match England had been trounced 3-6; these unfit players were extremely good ball players, their unusual playing positions made for flexibility; they seemed to have at least two extra players on the field.
The one thing that didn't happen was England learning a lesson. Fit men in their allotted positions (the opposition knowing exactly what they would do) who could boot a ball continued to rule. I don't think that they have ever really learnt their lesson at international level.
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