Grand Prix 2011 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Thought this might be useful if you wanted to sing along to the Canadian National Anthem before the start of the race.

Anyway, on to the Grand Prix, after all that’s what we’re here for. Last year Bridgestone provided tyres, which didn’t like the surface at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve too much, and the powers that be in F1 thought “ah, ha here’s an idea to spice up the racing. Why don’t we ask those blokes at Pirelli if they can make sets of boots for F1 cars that fall apart on the warm up lap”, and they did.

In 2010 Hamilton put his car on pole (you may recall him pushing his car back to the pits, so light was it on fuel) and then went on to win an exciting race with teammate Jenson Button standing on the 2nd step.

So what for Canada 2011? Red Bull, at least car No.1, has been a tad difficult to beat but McLaren and Ferrari are getting closer during the race. With 5 wins out of 6 races Vettel has a healthy lead in the Championship and some bookmakers are already paying out on the title being his. Vettel was 3rd on the grid last year, behind teammate Webber, and finished 4th with unspecified gearbox problems, still ahead of Webber who had led for many laps but got caught out by the high tyre wear rate.

Fernando Alonso was 3rd last time out in Canada after getting mugged by a hard charging Jenson Button. Mercedes had a mixed race, Rosberg was “best of the rest” behind the McLaren’s, Alonso’s Ferrari and the Red Bull’s whilst Michael Schumacher treated the race like a destruction derby, straight lining chicanes and bouncing off other cars with gay abandon. What of Felipe Massa I hear you ask; well, he was one of Schumacher’s victims and lost time pitting for a new nose cone.

This is very nearly the last Hurrah for the exhaust blown diffuser and we have two, yes 2, DRS zones. So expect cars breezing past another before and after the pits, when they’re not in their getting new tyres of course.

Will it be another Red Bull walk over or can the McLaren’s and Ferrari’s tame the charging Bull? How will the Pirelli tyres hold up dusty and bumpy Ille Notre-Dame Circuit? Will it rain? Who will win? Can one of the minor teams struggle up into the points? I don’t know but I get the feeling there will be lots of speculation.

And we have our own track side reporter this year - take a bow Ray in Toronto and make sure you post some good photos

For Galahad’s excellent circuit write up, track history and all the stats a boy or girl could want click here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-gilles-villeneuve/

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I thought this would be better in canadian GP race discussion but i decided on here, but does anyone think that button would have passed Vettel even without the spin? I think he would have before or after the DRS straight.

Most likely at the turn 13 chicane, would have been awesome to rob Vettel on the last corner...

 

[FB]

Well what can I say as the coverage moved to BBC2 I saw up until the restart after the 2nd safety car and then Sky+ ran out. Have to have look on the iPlayer.

 

[MCLS]

To be honest I wouldn't have been surprised if Button had have thrown one down the inside and similarly to the Alonso incident, a coming together in the wall of Champions.....

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Having Button behind you does not normally cause top drivers to leave the track, but Vettel did, maybe he had run out of magic button boost

 

[TN23]

I agree, he was too cautious in Montreal for most of it- got panicked when he saw Button and spun it. Shades of Senna at Monaco in 1988 (When Senna was 46 seconds ahead of Prost)

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Having Button behind you does not normally cause top drivers to leave the track, but Vettel did, maybe he had run out of magic button boost

Vettel actually never "left the track". He half spun off the dry line on to the wet section of the road ... but never completely lost it off the track itself. He kept it together fully on the ciruit for a very valuable 18 points.

Shame that neither Hamilton nor Alonso were able to successfully tackle Button in the event either!

Button had the race of his life and, basically, 'wasted' Hamilton. He then 'wasted' Alonso. Then he 'handled' Webber and Schumacher as if they were little children...and then he worked his Voodoo on Vettel. None of the 'Aces', both past and present, had any answer for Button in the event. Not Hamilton, not Alonso, not Vettel, not Webber, not Schumacher.

Give the bloke credit, for once. I don't like admitting it - because i'm more of a Hamilton fan than a Button fan - but Jenson made Lewis look like a frustrated "chump" (a CTA-ism, not my term) in Montreal AND Monaco. Too bad that Hamilton crashed his car because the way that McLaren-Mercedes MP4-26 with it's KERS Hybrid flew by Webber (as if the Aussie were driving a tonka truck), it suggested superiority enough for a 1-2.

That McLaren was the class of the field, allowing the winner the luxury of a mucked up call to go on Inters at the wrong time...the luxury of a drive thru penalty...and the luxury of going into pits after acquiring a puncture.

If one needed proof that the McLaren is superior to the Red Bull in race trim now, that was it. Button went through that pit lane 3 more times than was necessessary...and STILL sailed by Webber and closed to within 1 second of the lead with half a lap left.

 

[EvilWhippet]

I do wonder how Button can DNF two guys who arguably could've beaten him, bringing out two safety cars allowing the opportunity for victory, and completely escapes criticism.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

EvilWhippet, one can argue Hamilton was a willing and impatient participant in his own DNF. The word "impatience" comes to mind. One can also argue that Alonso was too ambitious trying to 'sit it out' versus Button. Alonso figured Button would submit...but Button was in no mood. The words "too ambitious" come to mind.

They were both "racing incidents". Personally, I don't think the Ferraris had the measure of the McLarens at Montreal in cooler race conditions. Alonso, in particular, looked like even 'holding up' Massa in the early going. And what ever chance Alonso had vanished when he decided to gamble on Inters when the rain was looking like getting heavier from where I was sitting.

 

[Hamberg]

Vettel actually never "left the track". He half spun off the dry line on to the wet section of the road ... but never completely lost it off the track itself. He kept it together fully on the ciruit for a very valuable 18 points.

Shame that neither Hamilton nor Alonso were able to successfully tackle Button in the event either!

Button had the race of his life and, basically, 'wasted' Hamilton. He then 'wasted' Alonso. Then he 'handled' Webber and Schumacher as if they were little children...and then he worked his Voodoo on Vettel. None of the 'Aces', both past and present, had any answer for Button in the event. Not Hamilton, not Alonso, not Vettel, not Webber, not Schumacher.

Give the bloke credit, for once. I don't like admitting it - because i'm more of a Hamilton fan than a Button fan - but Jenson made Lewis look like a frustrated "chump" (a CTA-ism, not my term) in Montreal AND Monaco Too bad that Hamilton crashed his car because the way that McLaren-Mercedes MP4-26 with it's KERS Hybrid flew by Webber (as if the Aussie were driving a tonka truck), it suggested superiority enough for a 1-2.

That McLaren was the class of the field, allowing the winner the luxury of a mucked up call to go on Inters at the wrong time...the luxury of a drive thru penalty...and the luxury of going into pits after acquiring a puncture.

If one needed proof that the McLaren is superior to the Red Bull in race trim now, that was it. Button went through that pit lane 3 more times than was necessessary...and STILL sailed by Webber and closed to within 1 second of the lead with half a lap left.

'wasted', 'handled', 'children' and none of it about Vettel.

Cookin, I think it's rather unfair incidentally to look at one mistake in front of Button as a career defining moment. He rarely cracks, it was a long race and probably harder for those without too much action to keep them occupied. He did alright and it was unusual for him, which I think says more.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

'wasted', 'handled', 'children' and none of it about Vettel.

Well, I did say Button 'worked his Voodoo on Vettel'. I did say Button took care of all of them, including Vettel.

Jenson cast his spell through a reflection in the RBR's mirrors ... and Seb folded like a bad poker hand...He cracked like an egg. That better?

 

[Hamberg]

No because as with the rest of your post it's just a bunch of superlatives about a topic that's been done to death.

 

[The Pits]

I do wonder how Button can DNF two guys who arguably could've beaten him, bringing out two safety cars allowing the opportunity for victory, and completely escapes criticism.

I would like to say in response, that he has not escaped criticism. There is plenty of it, as there always is. I do not go with rays colourful description, but he was on his game in changeable conditions.

As for vettels (topic in hand) when a driver sees another car, closing in at 2 seconds a lap, in tricky conditions, it does not really matter who is doing the chasing. In mitigation, with a narrow dry line, it was a mistake which may not even have been noticed in the dry.

Vettels mistake was the one he owned up to, in not pulling enough away after the last safety car. he showed he had speed in these nary when button was chasing, so he could have been further ahead, and not needed to push so much.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Vettels mistake was the one he owned up to, in not pulling enough away after the last safety car. he showed he had speed in these nary when button was chasing, so he could have been further ahead, and not needed to push so much.

Maybe he was out of magic boost

Cookin, I think it's rather unfair incidentally to look at one mistake in front of Button as a career defining moment. He rarely cracks, it was a long race and probably harder for those without too much action to keep them occupied. He did alright and it was unusual for him, which I think says more.

Maybe he doesn't crack because he normally has the trump card magic boost available

 

[Jen]

Exactly HOW long ago was Canada?

 

[MCLS]

Jenson Button 4:04:39.537

 

[KekeTheKing]

I don't think we are likely to see memorable overtakes with the rules as they are.

Maybe not from the more conservative drivers.

True racers will have a go whenever the opportunity arises. (note- This will not always end well)

 

[smallvizier]

Maybe not from the more conservative drivers.

True racers will have a go whenever the opportunity arises. (note- This will not always end well)

To me a true racer is someone who sees opportunities invisible to everyone else (lines, grip, passing chances); who can weigh them up in an instant; and who seems to be doing magic in the car.

It's about vision, judgement and surprise.

I saw the vision in Button last race, finding grip and using parts of the track that had just seemed off-limits to other drivers. At the same time as Massa was spinning against the wall trying to overtake a backmarker on a straight, Button was driving around the outside of corners which - moments before - had appeared drenched with water.

Schumacher showed judgement (for once!), with a perfect defence from Hamilton, leaving him on the outside line to realise he hadn't slowed down enough to make the corner; and a confident early change to intermediates which he almost managed to make into a podium with some fluent overtaking moves.

Vettel has consistently surprised, going so much faster than his team-mate and the other cars that in another thread people have suggested he has a boost system that isn't fitted to Webber's car. And Button stunned us in Montreal where I can't have been the only one completely flabbergasted at how much quicker than the other drivers he went - over two seconds a lap faster than anyone else on the track, except Vettel who put his car sideways trying to keep up.

These are the things which keep me on the edge of my seat at all the best races: inhuman vision, judgement and surprise. They're qualities which, for me, separate the most astonishing drivers in the world from the yob at the local go-kart track who smashes into everyone else's car (well, them and hard work).

I certainly disagree that a true racer is simply some-one who will never say no to a chance, even if it doesn't end well. I could do that. Pedal to the floor and charging head-first is the video game way of driving; riding the knife-edge and keeping your head when those about you are losing theirs is the way of my heroes.

You say "conservative" - I say, like Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean, the greatest drivers are just waiting for the "opportune moment."

 

[Hamberg]

Maybe not from the more conservative drivers.

True racers will have a go whenever the opportunity arises. (note- This will not always end well)

Well yes except for now when it's 'reckless' if you attempt this in 'non overtaking zones' or not on the usual overtaking line.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Schumacher showed judgement (for once!), with a perfect defence from Hamilton

If a diagonal dive across the circuit in a braking zone is perfect defense, then it's no wonder people are aghast that Hamilton has the temerity to pull alongside another driver in a place considered unfit for overtaking.

 

[smallvizier]

Well, here's how I saw it:

Hamilton left his braking late, in the hope of slipping past Schumacher
Schumacher kept his car between Hamilton and the apex, so Hamilton had to take the outside
Between Schumacher defending and Hamilton still not breaking much, Hamilton came up alongside
But now Hamilton had too much speed to take the outside line.

So Schumacher saw that Hamilton was trying to break late,
used his once defensive move to put Hamilton on a line which has to be taken slowly,
and earned himself some breathing space.

Simple, effective and (because he left Hamilton space) safe.

That said, if your interpretation differs then we could talk all day and not come to an agreement. I've no interest in doing that, because that one incident was completely peripheral to my post.

-

What I was trying to say is that I don't think that your level of agression has anything to do with being a true racer.

For me, true racers show vision and judgement, and surprise us. That could be in their overtakes, or equally in their racing lines, qualifying times, or defensive driving. Certainly, an agressive driver who shows vision and judgment - like Hamilton on a good day - is great to watch, but so is a more laid-back, lead-from-the-front type.

And someone who would go for any gap, even if they don't think it's going to end well, would not be a true racer in my book. Unable to see which passes will work; unable to judge risk; and surprising no-one when they mess up.

[Edited to remove the bits where I talked about the rest of the thread - as this post has now been moved]