Grand Prix 2011 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's a long summer and the key discussions aren't about the F1.

As we are in the middle of the summer break, the SKY/BBC deal continues to take precedence over any on track action we saw at Hungary, which is a shame as we saw a cracker of a race where Jenson Button eventually won his second race of the season ahead of Sebastian Vettel who extended his lead at the top of the championship yet again and surely it takes a miracle for anyone to overtake him now with less than half the races to go.

However with Belgium coming closer on the calender, it seems as if Red Bull has lost the dominance it held over the first half of the season with McLaren appearing to have the best all round package with 4 wins now this year with 2 for Button and 2 for Hamilton. Ferrari aren't far behind and are perhaps the best team in warm conditions but that remains to be seen after a series of damp and cold races. However it would still be a foolish person to bet against Red Bull going into the Belgian Grand Prix where the fast sweeping corners and technical hairpins will no doubt play to their advantage.

Spa Francorchamps is regarded (quite rightly) as the best driver circuit on the calendar with the famous circuit having many variations from its original form to the current version which was last changed in 2006 to incorporate the new pit area and final chicane, the final chicane wasn't popular as both fans and drivers miss the challenging bus stop chicane and the 'new' pit lane which can cause problems.

The grand prix has been famous for it's unpredictable weather with violent storms and half the track being dry and the other wet at the same time and completely random showers, the big example was 2008 where a late shower caught out the entire field and cost Kimi Raikkonen (and eventually Hamilton) the win. In 1998 torrential rain caused one of the worst starts in F1 history where half the field was wiped out on turn 1, eventually (after a restart) Damon Hill won for Jordan in a 1-2 with Ralf Schumacher second, Michael Schumacher famously nearly started a fight with David Coulthard after crashing into him trying to lap him.

Michael Schumacher has an impressive record at this track, winning his first race at the track in 1992 and taking several wins at the track with his last coming in 2002 where he took his seventh world championship. However at the moment it is unlikely that he will add to his list of wins with the Mercedes well off the pace of the leading trio of Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.

Mercedes might find themselves behind Force India at the race as the track suits them down to a tee, in 2009 Fisichella took a surprise pole position and then took second place just finishing behind Raikkonen in the Ferrari (who always seemed to win at Spa when he was driving there)
Sutil and Di Resta have shown impressive pace recently, with both achieving season bests at the last few races and are closing the gap to the flagging Renault team who have really lost performance since the start of the season with Heidfeld and Petrov dissapointing.

On a personal level I am really looking forward to this race as I have weekend tickets and will be at Pouhon all weekend to bring you the best coverage from the track, (better than these Sky lot anyway)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/

 

[Slyboogy]

Some of you seem to be base Maldonado's actions on "revenge" and blatant, how do you know this? Then some of you are excusing Hamilton for jinking to Maldonado's line twice without knowing his intention...

How can you excuse one but not te other when both make clearly do something a collision?

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Personally I think that Maldarado thinks that hamilton has completly backed out of it and doesn't adjust his line. I wasn't sure weather it was an inlap cuz admittedly my brain farted. so chexcked on the iplayer and yup.

I managed to click right on the point where Couthard throws a wobbly and yep another knee jerk-over reaction which a) doesn't help, b) gives me another reason to dislike him. There was definatly no swerve has coulthard seems to suggest (being polite).

I just cannot see a reason to to penalize anyone. It just seems to me a misunerstanding on what each other were doing.

 

[Hamberg]

"once the flag is out and the red lights are on there is no need to be racing - there should never ever be an incident."

This Sly. When someone can explain to me why on earth Maldonado needed to overtake, on an in lap, when he was out of quali, then 'some of us' may be able to comprehend that this non racing incident was a 'racing incident'. Until then I can only assume that it was revenge and blatant, because there is no other explanation as to why he was there.

 

[Slyboogy]

"once the flag is out and the red lights are on there is no need to be racing - there should never ever be an incident."

This Sly. When someone can explain to me why on earth Maldonado needed to overtake, on an in lap, when he was out of quali, then 'some of us' may be able to comprehend that this non racing incident was a 'racing incident'. Until then I can only assume that it was revenge and blatant, because there is no other explanation as to why he was there.

And drivers don't overtake when a session is over?

I agree that there shouldn't have been an incident, Hamilton quite clearly goes on to the racing line when Maldonado is along side, and he knew Maldonado was along side him when he moved over the second time.

I have said before, both punishments fit the crime, although I would have liked to have seen Maldonado sent to the back of the grid.

 

[Hamberg]

Yeah of course they overtake, my question was why he 'needed' to. I don't accept Hamilton's punishment as at best I think he was confused by what Maldonado was doing.

I agree about Maldonado. My issue with his punishment is that it doesn't account for the 'why' he "...tried to swipe" across Hamilton. But it's done know. I imagine Pastor will be facing the wrath of Frank for that which won't be too pleasant.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I like how Maldonado claimed he didn't know what was happening as an excuse. Should that actually be the case why was he given a super licence if he can't recall why has done something strange during a qualifying session. Personally I think Maldonado is lying and simply can't think of an acceptable reason for his actions. Let's not forget the safety of others isn't a high priority of Maldonado's as didn't he hit a Marshall at Monaco in GP2 after ignoring waved yellow flags.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Hamilton quite clearly goes on to the racing line when Maldonado is along side, and he knew Maldonado was along side him when he moved over the second time.

Hamilton has now confirmed that he pulled out of his first movement as he saw the Venezualan approaching:

"I think at the time it had begun to rain a little bit more towards the end of the session and I had gone around that, had some water on my tyres and had a little bit of wheelspin, but I think I was just continuing my line, went a bit right then saw that he had come out so I moved back.
Then he was in the blind spot for me, I continued driving straight and thought he was coming past, and then somehow he ended up right alongside me, I was lucky that his rear wheel did not hit my front wheel and I didn't get any more damage."

Lewis' on-board shot shows quite clearly that he made no 'second movement' as Maldonado passed him, as you claim, and which you seemed to acknowledge in one of your earlier posts when you admitted that the on-board made it look like Pastor's fault.

I have said before, both punishments fit the crime, although I would have liked to have seen Maldonado sent to the back of the grid.

You contradict yourself.

 

[Quintessentially]

Hamilton fans have every right to feel aggrieved. Had he done what Maldonado did, people would've been calling for him to be banned. I am certain he would not have escaped with a 5 place grid drop and the punishment makes a mockery of the rules. As i said earlier, he Maldonado was either guilty or not and if he was tougher action should've been taken.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I'm drawing a line under the Hamilton / Maldonado affair now and moving on. I think it's been discussed enough, and people aren't really going to change their opinions. Lewis has not lost his front row slot, mercifully and sensibly, and Maldonado starts from 21st as opposed to 16th. He was hardly going to figure much in the race anyway.

So it's time to look forward to the race. And what a race in prospect! Does anyone know which side of the track pole is? La Source often throws up some drama on the first lap. Will Sebastien run away and hide, or will Hamilton's Mclaren be a match for him and enable Lewis to put him under pressure? And can Mark Webber, buoyed by his new contract, finally win a race this season?
We also have the tantalising prospect of Massa, having outqualified Alonso, trying to hold his teammate off if Fernando makes the expected charge through the field. Two more drivers, Button and Schumacher, are also 'out of position', and it will be fascinating to see what progress either of them can make. With the possibility of changeable conditions, as always at Spa, Jenson could yet figure at the end; I don't really see Michael doing much better than getting into the tail end of the points.

As one who has always been a supporter of Nick Heidfeld and sceptical about Bruno Senna's ability, I must admit to being very impressed with Bruno's performance so far this weekend, after a shaky start; can he hold it together and get a good points finish? That would surely secure his seat for the rest of the season and seal Nick's fate.

 

[Chasz]

Hamilton has now confirmed that he pulled out of his first movement as he saw the Venezualan approaching:

"I think at the time it had begun to rain a little bit more towards the end of the session and I had gone around that, had some water on my tyres and had a little bit of wheelspin, but I think I was just continuing my line, went a bit right then saw that he had come out so I moved back.
Then he was in the blind spot for me, I continued driving straight and thought he was coming past, and then somehow he ended up right alongside me, I was lucky that his rear wheel did not hit my front wheel and I didn't get any more damage."

Lewis' on-board shot shows quite clearly that he made no 'second movement' as Maldonado passed him, as you claim, and which you seemed to acknowledge in one of your earlier posts when you admitted that the on-board made it look like Pastor's fault.

You contradict yourself.

I have to agree 100% with you there, Chad.

Pastor got away very lightly with this, as it was clearly entirely his fault. LH left him enough space, in fact more than enough, on the right where the racing line is. Why did Pastor have to come off the racing and come so close to LH especially when the session was already over? I'm afraid there are no excuses.

 

[sushifiesta]

Vettel's Pole Lap

That looked great and he was flat through Eau Rouge.

Just to re reiterate my point about the racing line, in this video and any other Spa onboard shot you'll see the driver moving to the right to hit the apex for the kink and then be in the best place for entry in to Eau Rouge. This is exactly what Hamilton was trying to do which is why in some of the shots it looks like perhaps he was driving into Maldonado.

Maldonado caused the incident by driving left around a right hander on a damp track with another car alongside. It can't be called a racing incident becausese this was all after the chequered flag and there was no need for him to get back to the pits in a hurry (as he'd been knocked out) - so really he could have just slowed down and not bothered to get past Lewis at all.

Not acceptable. I'll try to make this my last post on the matter though.

 

[Quintessentially]

I think this is going to be a very controversial and incident packed race. It's Spa after all.

 

[Brogan]

Hmmm....The onboard footage of hamilton proves diddly squat.

Look at the grid slot markings - that provides a reference as to who moves left and who doesn't move right at the point of impact.

 

[Brogan]

Apparently Vette's front tyres are badly blistered.

In other completely unrelated news, Pirelli are providing 17 new front tyres for use at this event.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-document-32.pdf
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-document-33.pdf

Tyres have been the major talking point behind the scenes at Spa today in the light of front blistering suffered by several of the teams who ran in Q3 and thus start in the top 10.

The teams concerned – including Red Bull – have tried to persuade the FIA that those tyres are damaged and thus they should be allowed to replace the fronts for the start of the race.

The FIA’s response appears to have changed over the course of the morning, with some team sources suggesting that permission has been granted to three teams and others now suggesting that it won’t happen after all. Three teams I spoke to in the last 30 minutes had different versions of the story; and one knew nothing at all about it.

An RBR source said that Adrian Newey and Christian Horner are in with the FIA right now.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/08/28/tyre-controversy-unfolds-at-spa/

 

[Quintessentially]

Apparently Vette's front tyres are badly blistered.

Great, any chance of him falling off the road? Safely of course

 

[KekeTheKing]

Apparently Vettel's front tires are badly blistered.
Pirelli are providing 17 new front tires

I was wondering about the Top 3's tire condition last night, as they did quite a few laps on that set. So this now means that everybody in Q3 gets to put a fresh set of rubber on at the front?

 

[Brogan]

Not sure yet Keke.

As is the norm, confusion reigns at the moment.

 

[Chasz]

Wow, Brogan, nice find.

Just begs the question: What is the point in the top 10 tyre rule if teams are just going to appeal it if their tyres get messed up?!?

 

[KekeTheKing]

Not sure yet Keke.

As is the norm, confusion reigns at the moment.

Document 33 says the tires are for "possible use", so that leads me to believe they cannot strap on a fresh set of fronts before the race starts. But .

Are we definitely looking at a dry race today?

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Looking forward to this one now. Can't wait to see what Alonso can do from 8th and Button from 13th.
Fingers-crossed Di Resta can fight his way through to the points from 17th on the grid.
Also watch out for Schumi, think he could produce a stellar performance from the back.

But TBH - Would like to see the following on the podium come the end of the race: Hamilton, Massa and Button (i know i'm dreaming but would be awesome if it happened) .