Why Didn't Hamilton Complete His Flyer For A Top 4 Time?

[Fenderman]

Hamilton was just over 50 sec's through the lap when the yellows went out so I believe he would have aborted the lap straight away. However, if he continued he would have crossed the line after the red flag went out and therefore not time would have been recorded.

Edit: I see Ray has just said that whilst I was away!

I second Ray's motion. Enjoy the race Chris. You too Ray.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Martin Brundle's thoughts a few days after the OP: "I'm not entirely convinced that he needed to abandon the qualifying lap where Massa was up ahead of him..." Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13606369.stm. Hate to say it, but that is where Hamilton threw away the 2011 Monaco Grand Prix victory!

Hopefully he will learn from that. When you have Vettel - at 23 - dictating strategy after his team screws up like they did his Monaco pit stop, you have to wonder why Hamilton - at 26 and with more experience - can't figure out when and how to go about Monaco Grand Prix qualifying.

 

[teabagyokel]

Ray, you clearly don't hate to say it

But I do believe you're right!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Ray, you clearly don't hate to say it But I do believe you're right!

I'm sure Hamilton will now learn to put in bankers and complete flyers. Hopefully! He learned from flat-spotting in Malaysian Qually by saving tyres in Chinese Qually and then winning that race...so I think he'll convert his car's recently borne race-winning pace into victory in Montreal. He should.

 

[teabagyokel]

Of course, Ray, there is irony in learning from your mistakes. Ferrari, for example, are extremely trigger-happy on the options at the end of Q1.

Some day that would have worked, Lewis would be on pole, he wins, everyone's happy. It just didn't go for him, but the theory he was working with was semi-sound.

Its not a qualifying gaffe to compete with Malaysia 2010, or his worst, Monza 2008. However, it was a mistake, and he was punished most harshly for it!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Its not a qualifying gaffe to compete with Malaysia 2010, or his worst, Monza 2008.

Yes, Malaysia 2010 Qually should have been fresh in everyone's minds, especially Ferrari's. What's the most important thing is "knowing your circuit". Monaco is the shortest circuit and so there's always going to be some traffic and you'll rarely get a clear road. On top of that, you didn't need to "save" tyres for this race (a likely 2-Stopper based on all intel) like you needed to in Spain (where some were 4-Stopping) . In Spain, you needed ALL 3 sets of Options. In Monaco, you did NOT need all 3 sets of Options. Heck, Sauber were going racing at Monaco knowing they were going to be using ONLY 1 set of Options!

Homework, homework, homework! Learn From Lessons, Learn From Lessons, etc.

 

[Speshal]

Ray - leave it it's done

 

[Quintessentially]

When you have Vettel - at 23 - dictating strategy after his team screws up like they did his Monaco pit stop, you have to wonder why Hamilton - at 26 and with more experience - can't figure out when and how to go about Monaco Grand Prix qualifying.

In what way is Vettel dictating strategy any better than Hamilton? I mentioned in the other thread how Vettel is pretty much ‘chaperoned’ through races like Smedley did with Massa when he was on top of his game (with comical exchanges lilke "try to shake him off" thrown in for equal measure). He is having a purple patch which is not going to last forever. It is worth mentioning that Redbull put him on the wrong tyres and this effectively won him the race. This was not Vettel’s call but the team’s and Rocky still had to radio coach him through the race when Jenson began to apply the pressure. Let’s not forget what happened at China when he qualified on pole yet lost the race on strategy and would’ve been passed by his teammate had the race lasted 2-3 laps more. The notion that he’s showing better leadership skills than Hamilton is quite simply not true and the only reason people play-up this quality is because of the amount of races he’s won. There is no doubt in my mind that all the top drivers including Vettel will go through Hamilton’s Monaco experience at some point. The level of detail and planning that goes into qualifying and strategy is extensive and a driver’s input is only one variable in a very long equation.

 

[Jen]

Ray - leave it it's done

I object to that smiley - what would the RSPCA make of it - that little yellow creature is working its socks off to no avail

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

In what way is Vettel dictating strategy any better than Hamilton?
... It is worth mentioning that Redbull put him on the wrong tyres and this effectively won him the race. This was not Vettel’s call but the team’s and Rocky still had to radio coach him through the race when Jenson began to apply the pressure.

Is it worth mentioning that Vettel led Button handily from Pole by about 4 seconds...lost the lead because his team cost him an extra 5 or 6 seconds with a botched pitstop...and, ON HIS OWN, made the call to make up for HIS TEAM'S ERROR by going the distance on that remaining set of tyres?

Is it worth mentioning, too, that had RBR not botched up Vettel's stop and actually put him on the 'right' tyres, Vettel would have kept his 4 second lead - give or take a second or two - and would have, effectively, 'covered off' Button from 'undercutting' him? Where would Jenson have gone then?

As per Rocky's coaching...Is it also worth mentioning that we never hear ALL the radio com for EVERY driver in the field on tv, but that every driver is told what the gaps are, who's moving closer, who is on what tyre, what the ware rates are likely to be, etc? You make it sound as if RBR served up a win to Vettel on a Silver Plater when it was actually Vettel who turned his team's error and delay into a highly mature and measured drive that was intended to beat a superior McLaren to race victory.

That is how Vettel 'dictated' better strategy than Hamilton who, unfortunately, burried his race chances on Saturday by 1) not strategically putting in a banker lap earlier in Q3 and 2) aborting a flyer which would have put him on Row Two of the grid.

 

[Quintessentially]

Ray - can you provide me evidence that it was Vettel and not the team who decided that Vettel would last the remaining race distance on said tyres? The team's error was effectively what won Vettel the race It's all academic and debatable but I didn't see any critical calls coming from Vettel apart from driving a measured and praiseworthy race. That's all. The team took care of strategy he brought the car home.

It's already been mentioned to you that Hamilton was nearly 7tenth down after passing Massa and would've had to abort his lap following the double waved yellows from Perez's crash. It's also been mentioned that Hamilton was out of his car and the onset of Q3 due to a mechanical issue of some sort and therefore could not set a time. Nonetheless, he started 9th, finished 6th, had to navigate a drive through penalty, red flag, damaged rear wing and on top of this an additional timed penalty for a non-existent infringement. He drove a strong race, botched qualifying notwithstanding. Don't forget it was Hamilton's decision to limp around with his damaged rear wing when he could've parked the car and lost any points he stood to gain.

You're looking for comparison with Vettel where it doesn't exist. Each to their own. Both have different personalities and different leadership qualities. This is why I highlighted China when Vettel lost the race thanks to a strategic error. Where were his leadership skills then? We are dealing with some very tight margins this year and too many people let the end result dictate their opinions without looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Speshal]

I feel this issue has been done to death - what happened, happened and no amount of recycling the same debate is going to change that. So, in light of this, I've decided to lock this thread.