Things ... Welcome to the Future (2018 - 2019 Silly Season)

[RasputinLives]

You might need to watch your 2008 review DVD again. He retired in the first 4 GP on lap 1. Two of them were mechanical failures (one I remember was engine) and another was a stall and a slow get away.

Either way that was Vettels first full season in F1 and things very much got better. Again I don't dispute that Vettel, Hamilton and all have had incidents where they've acted like morons but I can't remember any of them having them as consistently as Max does.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives That I agree and I looked at the incident again and how Max was not punished for weaving which left Daniel nowhere to go is beyond me

You know I think Nigel Mansell apparently was accident prone in his early years to the point Ron Dennis produced a whole footage of all his crashes and saying Williams made a mistake hiring him so that is the only other person that speaks to mind.

Other notable drivers who crashed - James Hunt - if anyone can back up him being called Hunt the Shunt then please do

Andre De Cesaris - were it not for Marlboro he would not be in F1

 

[Bill Boddy]

RasputinLives .... James Hunt....

One of my friends had a hatred of Hunt as he had been purposely forced of the black stuff in a lower series in the days when such an event still was very dangerous.

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy So it was true he earned the moniker Hunt the Shunt for good reason unless he was named something else I can't say on here

 

[Bleu]

How I remember 2008 season, Vettel wasn't too much to blame in his first-lap crashes.

Australia: Three cars side-by-side with Vettel on the middle, ending it with collision with Button who was inside.
Bahrain: Someone hit Vettel and broke the radiator.
Spain: Sutil spun just in front of Vettel
Britain: The camera angle wasn't good but maybe 50/50 with DC.

His mistakes in early 2009 (crash with Kubica in Oz, spin in Malaysia and crash in Monaco) were worse IMO.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Daniel Ricciardo 'unlikely' to join Mercedes - Lewis Hamilton

"Lewis Hamilton says it is 'unlikely' his Mercedes team is one of Daniel Ricciardo's options for a potential move from Red Bull...Hamilton has often said that he is consulted on his views during the decision-making process.

"Vettel is said by sources close to Ferrari to be pushing hard for the team to retain Raikkonen for next season."

Well, that's Ricciardo screwed then.

 

[Il_leone]

I thought Ferrari had a conditional offer with Ricciardo seems to be the story a few races. I am trying to think with Ferrari drivers when they tend to get the boot if they don't win the drivers title - most are gone within 2 years , a few exceptions have lasted 5 years

Alboreto = 1984-1988 , finished 2nd in 1985 before his career went downhill

Alesi = 1991-1995 , joined Ferrari as they were going downhill

Schumacher = 1996 -2006 , twice runners up before breaking leg and then subsequently 5 in a row

Alonso =2010-2014 , 3 times runners up but Ferrari got worse

Vettel = 2015 -??, this is his 4th year so his stance on picking a teammate is strong unless Ferrari 's hierarchy will start thinking they need someone else to drive the team


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Hamilton and Mercedes - interesting to hear that Lewis has offered his views but I thought Toto just last month said he is not looking beyond current Mercedes drivers at the moment

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I don't think Ricciardo is screwed because if you were a team principal you would want a top class driver winning in your car and not beating your team so as long as Ricciardo keeps up his challenge and takes the fight to Vettel and Hamilton . He is in a strong negotiation position.

The only way he can't join those teams is if the drivers have contracts which states certain drivers can't be in the same team.

Vettel and Hamilton maybe consulted over driver choices but if Ferrari went to Vettel to pick Hamilton or Ricciardo who do you think he would pick ? Remember Lewis has not signed his contract yet

 

[Angel]

Daniel Ricciardo 'unlikely' to join Mercedes - Lewis Hamilton

"Lewis Hamilton says it is 'unlikely' his Mercedes team is one of Daniel Ricciardo's options for a potential move from Red Bull...Hamilton has often said that he is consulted on his views during the decision-making process.

"Vettel is said by sources close to Ferrari to be pushing hard for the team to retain Raikkonen for next season."

Well, that's Ricciardo screwed then.

Yes, where would Ricciardo get a better drive than Red Bull if Mercedes and Ferrari aren't open to him? If I was him I wouldn't mess about waiting too long either, Red Bull have offered him a contract as I understand it, I'd sign the damn thing before they decide Pierre Gasly is good enough to fill his seat. Red Bull love a new and exciting talent and Gasly is shaping up to be one of those from what I've seen of him so far I'd say.

Oh and if Ferrari don't keep Kimi for 2019, I reckon Charles Leclerc could be moved up to the team. He seems to be in line for it and he's doing a good job so far this season. That crash in Monaco wasn't his fault and until then he was going really well again.

The older more established drivers need to keep a wary eye out, we have some good young talent in F1 at the moment it seems to me. I'm guessing the youngsters are much cheaper too, so if they do bring in budget restrictions getting rid of costly drivers could become an attractive option.

 

[RasputinLives]

I reckon we'll have Kimi for another year I'm afraid. Red Bull would be very silly to let Danny Ric go right now. I reckon Ocon just secured his Merc seat by moving over for both Mercedes drivers. As an Ocon fan it was very disappointing to see but I guess you do what you can to get to the top.

 

[cider_and_toast]

There comes a time in every top drivers career when they start to doubt their ability to maintain their status as number 1 and the good old veto starts to come into to play. For example, Senna did it on multiple occasions and Prost did it at Williams when it looked likely that Senna would have taken the second seat. Schumacher's contract pretty much prevented any challenge from any team mate ever.

There have been some great 'super team' pairings over the years though. Clark / Hill, Prost / Lauda and Prost / Senna being classic examples.

 

[RasputinLives]

If I had to partner any of the big names then I'd chose Hamilton. Not because I think he is the weakest but because historically his team mates have at least been given the chance to challenge him. Where Vettel and Alonso are concerned you'd feel the deck had already been stacked against you before you'd got in the car.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Yeah, I guess you have to admire Mercedes for that.

History does show however, that every time Hamilton has had a team mate that has been able to turn the screws on him, Hamilton has gone into meltdown mode on more than one occasion.

 

[Il_leone]

For Ricciardo to go to Ferrari it will be interesting to see who makes the call because it appears Marchionne is the main man whereas Arrivabene seems to have gone into a shell a bit and less vocal than in previous years

Vettel is consulted over teammates but there are people in Ferrari who might start whispers and start championing for Ricciardo. Simply because Vettel would have had 4 years to win the title and surely Ferrari are going to lose patience with him if he falters this year

Ricciardo - the problem with Red Bull is they have not committed to an engine yet and will wait in Canada before confirming but it is pretty much going to be Honda having publicly disparaged Renault and they could have done that in Monaco had they retired the car.

Should Ricciardo be Hamilton's main challenger and not Vettel then why would Ferrari not consider getting him in one of the seats. Yes it will upset Vettel but he has had his chances to prove it unless off course he has someone backing him at Maranello to make it not happen

Mercedes option is the least likely of the 3 because they have already 3 drivers to consider for their cars. For Ricciardo to get into the seat, it would have to take a fall out by Hamilton with Mercedes and Bottas going through a bad slump to not consider him

 

[teabagyokel]

History does show however, that every time Hamilton has had a team mate that has been able to turn the screws on him, Hamilton has gone into meltdown mode on more than one occasion.

To be fair, Vettel had a downplayed but still extant meltdown in 2014 when confronted by Danny Ricciardo. Alonso, meanwhile, was challenged by Hamilton in 2007 and went full-on nuclear, practically taking the whole team down with him.

If I were Ricciardo, I think Hamilton would be my preferred team-mate out of the three. I think he’s very similar to Button - not always a great qualifier but capable of passing people or making a strategy work; calm and competent when faced with an otherwise chaotic Grand Prix; popular and good-humoured enough to ‘win’ a team over; and more quick than appearances initially suggest.
And we know that JB got under Hamilton’s skin somewhat with that combination.

 

[Angel]

Hamilton does have more meltdowns than most. He seems to be weaker mentally if things start to go not his way. That's when he makes stupid errors, especially in quali. He does tend to get more whiny down the radio as mentioned in the Hamilton thread in the drivers section.

Nico Rosberg beat Hamilton, not necessarily by being a better driver in my opinion, more by being mentally stronger and by being consistent. Hamilton had way more ups and down. I'd actually like to see how he'd handle Ricciardo as a team mate, but I don't think it will happen.

As for Vettel when Ricciardo was his team mate at Red Bull. I had the feeling then that the team wanted him out, they couldn't fire him based on his performances, but they wanted someone new and exciting to grab some headlines again. They set the car up around Ricciardo's driving style more than Vettel's and he struggled badly. He moved to Ferrari the next season and suddenly he was winning again, that spoke volumes to me. Of course I may be getting old and cynical but that is how I saw it at the time and no one has come up with a good enough argument to make me change that view so far.
I also think the team threw Ricciardo under a bus and screwed his strategy to allow Max his first win in Spain the other year too. It got them loads of headlines and that seems to me what they are often about.

 

[Il_leone]

I still think if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari then Vettel is actually in a spot of bother because he has got the team behind him and Ricciardo has made it clear he is not going to be No 2 and the person who will make that decision is Marchionne not Vettel or Arrivabene. So if Ricciardo signs then Vettel can't expect to voice his disapproval to Marchionne

It was that sort of decision which upsetted Alonso when they signed Raikkonen or when Schumacher heard Ferrari was going to sign Raikkonen ... he quit before being tested .

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Hamilton having these melt downs, if you are mentally tough and he is going through a bad patch it upsets his rythm and you can beat him .. that has happened only twice Button and Rosberg. Now Ricciardo is probably the only driver on the grid who is mentally strong and not overrawed to take on Hamilton as his teammate and would relish it.

Its funny how Vettel and Hamilton were joking about being teammates because that can still happen

 

[RasputinLives]

What makes you think Ricciardo will get the Ferrari team behind him straight away? Vettel is the apple of their eye at the moment. Also I don't think Ferrari signing Kimi bothered or effected Alonso one bit. I think he just alienated himself from the team.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives Ricciardo is a clever driver when it comes to being political without sounding so political in demanding no 1 status or team support at least. I said if he is signed then Marchionne is going to make the call not Vettel. It will be interesting to see if Ferrari (Marchionne) has confidence in Vettel to deliver the title so they will not sign Ricciardo and go either for Kimi/ Perez/ LeClerc which is Vettel's preferred option.

Vettel is the apple of their eye as long as he shows he can continue to take the fight to Hamilton until the end of the season and not fall away which happened last year.
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You can see the teammate relationship between Alonso and Raikkonen was rather frosty. Yes Alonso did alienate himself from the team but he felt the management should have done more on how things are done but Dominicali was rather a yes man which meant trouble for Alonso if things were not working well.

Signing Kimi as just another thing he left the management did not know what they were doing

 

[RasputinLives]

Ferrari has a long history of number 1 and number 2 drivers. It's kind of embedded in the team. I think if a driver comes to the team and doesn't demand to be number 1 they don't get behind him. Look at Kimi first time round.

None of it matters anyway as Ricciardo is going to stay at Red Bull and Kimi will have another year at Ferrari. Bottas will prob get another year at Merc too.

Then we can have the same conversations next year too.

 

[F1Brits_90]

on vettel & Hamilton being teammates I remember, webber saying that if ecclestone was still here he would be in the ear of Hamilton & Ferrari to get them to be teammates next season. which i think would be great for sport, because there is potential for off track drama & in hindsight despite a lot of bad blood it was good because F1 was on back pages because of the fued between Hamilton & alonso