Vettel's Gearbox

[Jos the Boss]

I'm not convinced that Vettel had a gearbox problem for most of the race but still managed to set fastest laps? As the real hustle said if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is

 

[Mephistopheles]

Ive not voted; because I dont know whether to go for option 2 or 3. I cant help but think if he raced as hard as he did he cant have had a gear box problem. But I'm told(by more technical people than myself) that I do not understand gear box problems and that an oil leak would not affect performance. Is that so? Is there a technical person that can explain this (in not too technical language)to me.

I started off life as a maintenance engineer working on pumps and gearboxes and I can tell you that they don't put oil in a gearbox for a laugh its there to lubricate the gears.

RB said there was hardly any oil left in the gearbox. it would be impossible for an ordinary gearbox to survive without oil let alone one that is designed to the tolerances of an F1 car and have go cope with 18,000 RPM and 800 BHP even a small amount of oil loss would have a catastrophic effect, never mind running it dry.

In short the the gears would heat up and the box would either seize or blow itself apart no matter how much short shifting the driver did, not that there was any evidence of Vettel short shifting at all.

I don't care if your name is Harry Houdini you wouldn't be able to nurse a gearbox that was loosing that much oil.

Red Bull are lying, of that I have no doubt..

 

[Speshal]

Utter balderdash, that was a "good boy Mark" pat on the head early xmas present.

 

[racecub]

Thanks. That gives technical credence to what my intuition was telling me. I will now vote

 

[Fenderman]

I believe that current F1 gearboxes are of the "dry sump" variety whereby the oil is stored in a separate oil tank and pumped through the gearbox in order to optimise lubrication and oil pressure within the box and minimise power loss that can result from over-lubrication. The pressure within the gearbox casing will also rise and fall with engine speed since the oil pump will be driven via drive belt from the crankshaft.

The purpose of short shifting through the gears is to run at lower rev's in an attempt to keep temperatures and pressures down inside the box and in-so-doing prolong the life of the gears. I have to say I am highly sceptical that this tactic would actually work for very long. I would also be very interested to know just where the oil was going if it were not being pumped through the box. Something in the system must have been compromised such as an oil seal or the integrity of the casing, etc. Suffice it say that with losses sufficient to empty the oil tank it's mighty mysterious that the bearings didn't fail and gears shred as a result of the ensuing heat and friction.

Maybe, Vettel is a genius after all. Either that or a miracle worker.

 

[Brogan]

I didn't notice any tell tale signs of oil on the bodywork, or indeed on the circuit either.

Not to mention Mark would have been covered in it as he followed behind Vettel.

 

[Fenderman]

Indeed.

Just had a root around and found this article on the dry sump gearbox:
http://www.ret-monitor.com/articles/1933/optimisation-of-oil-flow-in-a-dry-sumped-gearbox/

 

[LJKSet]

I was watching the coverage on ESPN Starsports here is Asia. I don´t know if the feed is the same as the BBC use, but there was on-board footage with graphics during a few of the ¨shift up early¨ messages, and at no point did Seb shift up before the end of the red zone of the rev counter graphic. All gears seemed to be engaging normally too.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Yup. We all get the FOM feed.

 

[Pyrope]

I was in two minds about this for most of the last couple of days, and voted accordingly originally, but the more you hear about it and the more that people pull out evidence like the eminent Setright's, above, you have to think that this was a crude ruse. A shame.

 

[RasputinLives]

Hmm interesting reading on here. I still can't believe Seb was in on it though as I think he'dmhave made sure he was sitting on Webber's gear box when he crossed the line to make a point. From information on here though - maybe the team.

Surely the scruiterneers after the race would be able to see if they gearbox was dry of oil and whether Red Bull were telling the truth or not? I guess they're not doing anything illegal so they don't care right? still be interesting to know.

 

[FB]

It does smack a bit of Eddie Irvine's notorius "brake problems" when at Ferrari but, seriously, did any of us begrudged Mark one win this year? And if Red Bull wanted to manipulate the result without a FIFTY type instruction what's the problem?

At least Christian Horner wasn't running down the pit lane a la Ron Dennis at the European Grand Prix in 1997 getting agreement from all the other team principals that their drivers wouldn't challenge Hakkinen for his first win - he even made DC get out of the way if I remember rightly.

 

[RasputinLives]

Just because other people are doing it doesn't make it right.

and I begrudge it him yes - I can think of at least half a dozen drivers on the grid more deserving of a win this season and no one fixed it(if they did) for them to win

 

[Slyboogy]

Don't understand why Vettel would agree to this, if I was him I would go out to win it.

If they did fix it, then I find it very very strange as no one at all seems to have gained from this. Webber I doubt would take this as a moral booster, Vettel loses out on a win. The only winner here is Red Bull who get a 1-2, but would have got it anyway if Vettel won.

 

[Brogan]

 

[Galahad]

A post-race quote from Webber:

"When I started to take a pretty big chunk out of him per lap, I thought something might have been going down, and then Ciaron informed me that he had a gearbox problem. And I think I could smell it a little bit when I got close, and there was also a little bit of fluid. Normally, that's a nice feeling…"

 

[Slyboogy]

Interesting he says

Normally

 

[The Artist.....]

View attachment 2974

I liked that Bamber's view....