Time For McLaren To Employ Team Orders "Soon"?

[RayInTorontoCanada]

It's a straight forward question.

Given the points gap Vettel-to-Hamilton, do you think McLaren should put Button under orders fairly "soon"?

Also, how "soon"?

I totally understand that Button is only 1 win behind Hamilton and that can change next Sunday very quickly...but is Button winning the title at this stage any more "realistic" than Hamilton winning it?

What should McLaren philosophy be going into August?

Let the two "race"?

Focus only on wins (no matter who does the winning)?

OR

Try to win the World Championship?

 

[RasputinLives]

in answer to the title question.

No.

I seem to remember you asked the same question just before the Canadian race. I think its much healthier for both if they are allowed to race

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I seem to remember you asked the same question just before the Canadian race

I did? I don't think so.

 

[RasputinLives]

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/are-...r-wdc-efforts-by-not-backing-a-number-1.2904/

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/are-...r-wdc-efforts-by-not-backing-a-number-1.2904/

Hmmm.

Hmmm.

Ummm...That was a different type of question! That was about dilluting their efforts in terms of strategy. This one is asking a specific question about putting Button under Orders now.

 

[FB]

I read (I think) on the BBC website that Jenson has ruled out any chance of the Championship this year and he was just going to "enjoy himself". It would seem logical if he doesn't believe he has a chance for the drivers title he should help Lewis, but then he's a racing driver...

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Button has stated that he is out of the title chase

I agree, 100 points PLUS expecting Lewis, Alonso and Webber to finish behind him from now on is just not going to happen in a month of Sundays

Is Whitmarsh able to make decisions like this and stick to them, or will it be Button volunteering his support to his other half?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Jenson certainly hasn't had a chance to "enjoy himself" much since returning back from Canada!

He probably didn't "enjoy" how he exited the pits - and the Grand Prix - at home in England...and he probably "enjoyed" watching Hamilton dismantle his Q2 and Q3 time in Germany even less!

Poor Jense hasn't been doing a lot of enjoying this year. He bungled through Red Bull's pit box in China and threw away a win in Monaco. And, now, he's effectively thrown in the towel on the WDC because he knows Hamilton can extract more out of the car than he can.

I think Lewis broke Jenson's back - and spirit - at Nurburgring, to he honest.

Lewis was extactic and as happy as you could possibly see him while Jenson was utterly bemused - speechless even - at what Lewis did in Q3.

I guess it was very much the opposite after Button passed Vettel with less than half a lap left in Canada...so things can change very quickly.

My only point is that Button seems to have more invisible weekends than he should and McLaren should realize they only have one "great" driver capable of winning this WDC.

 

[RasputinLives]

IMO Button seems like the kind of driver that in a situation where he had no chance(mathamaticaly) of winning a title and his team-mate did that would move over. He'd do it on the last lap just before the line to make sure everyone knew he was doing it but he'd do it.

I think by help Lewis he means by taking points off the other - something he may well have done to Vettel in Germany if he hadn't had his problem but thats the only help I can see him offering and I'm glad of it. I'm not a big fan of 'using your team-mate to intefere with the opposition' - I find it a little unsporting. Which is why I was glad Massa did pit the lap after Alonso this weekend and didn't stay out to hold up Webber.

So as support goes I see Jenson moving over on the last lap if Lewis is second and making sure he mixes it up and takes points off the others.

However if Jenson pulls off a victory next week with a none finish from Hamilton and Vettel I fully expect him to take back that statement!

 

[RasputinLives]

I think Lewis broke Jenson's back - and spirit - at Nurburgring, to he honest.

ooooo he might make you eat those words Ray - so many time people(including myself) have counted Jenson out in relation to compeating with Lewis and so many times he's come back and stuffed it down their faces.

We all know on his day Lewis is untouchable - such as the weekends just gone - but I'm afraid as of yet its not every weekend and Jenson has a habbit of making hay whilst the sun shines. I think he's proven enough to all for us to realise he'll always be hovering just on Lewis's shoulder points wise - and you know what? I think Lewis is a better driver for it

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Yes well I can only hope that a driver of Lewis' age can keep learning...from everyone and not just his more experienced teammate.

Button is a very talented racing driver for sure. He's not a World Champion for nothing. He's shown that he's a very good F1 driver as far back as 2000 and 2004. So, "on his day", there's no reason to think he can't pull out something special like he did in Canada.

Having said that, Button's consistency at the very highest level is lacking. I used the term "invisible" earlier...and I feel that Button's "invisible" weekends are far more frequent than that of a truly great Number 1 driver.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I think Button would only help Hamilton if he had a realistic chance of winning the title, say Vettel's gap to Hmailton under 50 points. Otherwise I seem to remember Button making a fuss about team orders last year and McLaren don't have a history of employing them.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...I seem to remember Button making a fuss about team orders last year ...

That's because he was also in the mix until the 2nd or 3rd last race of the year.

... and McLaren don't have a history of employing them...

Really?

Tell that to Coulthard (98/99), Montoya (05), Hamilton / Alonso (07) and Kovy (08).

 

[F1ang-o]

IMO Button seems like the kind of driver that in a situation where he had no chance(mathamaticaly) of winning a title and his team-mate did that would move over. He'd do it on the last lap just before the line to make sure everyone knew he was doing it but he'd do it.

I think by help Lewis he means by taking points off the other - something he may well have done to Vettel in Germany if he hadn't had his problem but thats the only help I can see him offering and I'm glad of it. I'm not a big fan of 'using your team-mate to intefere with the opposition' - I find it a little unsporting. Which is why I was glad Massa did pit the lap after Alonso this weekend and didn't stay out to hold up Webber.

So as support goes I see Jenson moving over on the last lap if Lewis is second and making sure he mixes it up and takes points off the others.

However if Jenson pulls off a victory next week with a none finish from Hamilton and Vettel I fully expect him to take back that statement!

Lewis wants to win.....by his driving & not from any help...which I'm sure you are right, when you say,.. Jenson wouldn't give it. Jenson is in it for Jenson....not the team & certainly not for his team mate who he put in the wall at Canada.
If Lewis had done that to JB, a lynching party would have been riding out.
Lewis never settles for what he has....he wants more...never 'lukin after mi points' .....for him. He has an 'all or nothing mentality' AND I LOVE IT!'

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Tell that to Coulthard (98/99), Montoya (05), Hamilton / Alonso (07) and Kovy (08).

I agree with Coulthard and Montoya but what team orders was there in 2007? Heikki Kovalainen hasn't confirmed there were any team orders in 2008. But I will agree that Hamilton passed him quickly at both Silverstone and Hockenheim (although Silverstone didn't really matter...).

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Jenson certainly hasn't had a chance to "enjoy himself" much since returning back from Canada!
I think Lewis broke Jenson's back - and spirit - at Nurburgring, to he honest.

I don't think Jense has been broken, ego wise like Alonso was in 2007, Jense always expected to be beaten and luckily has put up some resistance

However the picture of his face after q3 looking at the times is disbelief, he looks like he has been smacked over the head too often and is now punch drunk
Probably why he rules himself out, but after one good race he will be back in shape, and Lewis genuinely likes him

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I agree with Coulthard and Montoya but what team orders was there in 2007? Heikki Kovalainen hasn't confirmed ... But I will agree that Hamilton passed him quickly at ... Hockenheim...

I'm sure both Hamilton and Alonso will say they were at the wrong end of orders in 2007. For Hamilton it would most notable be Monaco where he made a big enough issue of it that it irritated Alonso enough that he (Alonso) didn't like it when McLaren didn't give him (Alonso) enough credit in the media following the race. I think you could argue that Hamilton was given some sort of order during the fuel burn phase of final qualifying at Hungary. Yes?

I'm sure Alonso, himself, could argue that he too was on the wrong end of the stick too.

But that's another thread...and, in the end, McLaren actually do have some history of calling orders.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I agree that they have some history of it, but you can't say that your sure Alonso was on the bad end. But your right about Monaco.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...but you can't say that your sure Alonso was on the bad end.

Oh please, no-FIAt, my friend. Let's be even somewhat realistic, shall we?

Anyway, I have at least illustrated that there has been some history of McLaren team orders, including 2007.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

I am but Alonso never said team order were against him, he did however have an FIA delegate in the McLaren garage to make sure everything was kept fair and that there was no foul play with the cars. We can't claim to know the facts behind a teams season when everyone involved in it has kept quiet, we can only acknowledge the facts.