The V6 Engines
- Thread starter sushifiesta
- Start date
I don't think the lap time difference will be significant enough to be a worry and I think the cars sound ace.
Ever the optimist, there'll be another full glass along in a minute.
Ever the optimist, there'll be another full glass along in a minute.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Another picture of the Mercedes engine:
As of now, the number of laps completed by each engine in testing so far:
Mercedes: 195 laps.
Ferrari: 108 laps.
Renault: 38 laps.
Renault are having serious teething problems it seems.
Mercedes: 195 laps.
Ferrari: 108 laps.
Renault: 38 laps.
Renault are having serious teething problems it seems.
Sounds more like a ERS battery issue, according to Newey:
"These batteries can suffer thermal runaway through impacts...and the packs are so big that it's difficult to control when they do - it's park it in the pitlane & watch it burn, frankly"
(sort of quoted from a sidebar by Andrew Benson quoting Newey)
"These batteries can suffer thermal runaway through impacts...and the packs are so big that it's difficult to control when they do - it's park it in the pitlane & watch it burn, frankly"
(sort of quoted from a sidebar by Andrew Benson quoting Newey)
Haven't you noseiced that there has been quite a lot of innovation in other areas? I agree with you on the whole though.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Nice to see these money & planet-saving ideas working so well.
I've always felt that ERS is yet one more layer of artificiality that F1 doesn't need. Devise rules that make it possible for genuine passes to take place (by reducing the importance of aero--who knows, the supremely ugly nosepieces might disappear as well). F1 is, IMO becoming a bit of a farce and can hardly be considered the pinnacle of the sport any more
ERS is not really anything to do with overtaking any more - it's a fundamental part of the powertrain of the car that will be used without intervention from the drivers. All the energy recovery systems suddenly make F1 highly relevant to hybrid road cars so I don't think it's artificial and it is something that F1 absolutely needs to survive.
This doesn't mean I think F1 is all hunky dory though. Some rule changes have been absolutely farcical like the double points and the DRS "only if you're a certain distance behind" rule, and some of the rule changes that have been necessary nevertheless suck some of the life and soul out of F1 as well.
This doesn't mean I think F1 is all hunky dory though. Some rule changes have been absolutely farcical like the double points and the DRS "only if you're a certain distance behind" rule, and some of the rule changes that have been necessary nevertheless suck some of the life and soul out of F1 as well.
Andyoak
Champion Elect
I sort of agree with you, siffert_fan, but ERS (like DRS) would be fine if it was a free for all, unrestricted tool. I'm fine with it as a supplement to the engine if it increases power / makes the power more deliverable.
I'm all for encouraging the development of these things in competition by insisting they are incorporated with the power plant BUT the engineers should be free to use as much or little as they want. That would probably be determined by weight and reliability (as always) and would be driven / encouraged by limiting the fuel / energy source allowance (something we've talked about before - especially with Galahad) which I'm also in favour of.
Aero has always been a part of F1 in my time but not to this extent; it's the complexity of all these elements stacked up that look wrong in my eyes. They make the noses look heavy and the cars unbalanced... I prefer the end plates to stop at the inside tyre wall and single plane either side fixed directly to the nose.
I do agree with you about F1 having dropped from being the pinnacle of motor sport; but I'm still glad its here... I can watch most of it without paying any more than a TV licence, still care about 'my team' and enjoy the discussions on CTA.
I'm all for encouraging the development of these things in competition by insisting they are incorporated with the power plant BUT the engineers should be free to use as much or little as they want. That would probably be determined by weight and reliability (as always) and would be driven / encouraged by limiting the fuel / energy source allowance (something we've talked about before - especially with Galahad) which I'm also in favour of.
Aero has always been a part of F1 in my time but not to this extent; it's the complexity of all these elements stacked up that look wrong in my eyes. They make the noses look heavy and the cars unbalanced... I prefer the end plates to stop at the inside tyre wall and single plane either side fixed directly to the nose.
I do agree with you about F1 having dropped from being the pinnacle of motor sport; but I'm still glad its here... I can watch most of it without paying any more than a TV licence, still care about 'my team' and enjoy the discussions on CTA.
Here's some depressing viewing for your evening. Side by side the V6s just do not compare to the V8s (the comparison comes in the last minute or so of the video):
The difference may be amplified by the teams not really coming close to running flat out yet but still...
The difference may be amplified by the teams not really coming close to running flat out yet but still...
Last edited:
The thing is that every other top-level sport is doing the same thing. WEC and WRC can't be accused of dumbing down to becoming pure entertainment, but the regs are hauled back to attract the manufactuers they need to survive.
Mercedes has only had 2 teams at the test (MaRussia not there yet). Mercedes has 4 teams at the test. Renault has 3 teams at the test. So Ferrari is doing best in terms of laps/car. Right?
Last edited:
Batman
Day 2 Totals:
Mercedes: 212 laps (53 laps per car)
Ferrari: 100 laps (50 laps per car)
Renault: 19 laps (6 laps per car)
Overall Totals:
Mercedes: 248 laps (62 laps per car)
Ferrari: 138 laps (69 laps per car)
Renault: 38 laps (13 laps per car)
Ferrari and Mercedes are very close on laps per car, Ferrari ahead overall but Mercedes better today, which was a more "normal" day of testing.
Marussia and Lotus are not included in the totals. You could argue that Marussia should be since they are meant to be attending the test but decided to troubleshoot at home rather than in Jerez - if you do that would obviously give Mercedes a decent lead.
I'd also argue that total laps is what counts most at this point. Ferrari can't compete with the other two on that (well, they can with Renault at the moment...) as they're supplying one less team, which may give Mercedes and Renault a slight edge in identifying what they need to fix/improve on their engines.
Day 2 Totals:
Mercedes: 212 laps (53 laps per car)
Ferrari: 100 laps (50 laps per car)
Renault: 19 laps (6 laps per car)
Overall Totals:
Mercedes: 248 laps (62 laps per car)
Ferrari: 138 laps (69 laps per car)
Renault: 38 laps (13 laps per car)
Ferrari and Mercedes are very close on laps per car, Ferrari ahead overall but Mercedes better today, which was a more "normal" day of testing.
Marussia and Lotus are not included in the totals. You could argue that Marussia should be since they are meant to be attending the test but decided to troubleshoot at home rather than in Jerez - if you do that would obviously give Mercedes a decent lead.
I'd also argue that total laps is what counts most at this point. Ferrari can't compete with the other two on that (well, they can with Renault at the moment...) as they're supplying one less team, which may give Mercedes and Renault a slight edge in identifying what they need to fix/improve on their engines.
Last edited:
Blog Zbod
Podium Finisher
Typically, a thermal runaway occurs when a battery gets hot enough to degrade the integrity of the insulating barrier separating two of its adjacent power cells. Which produces a negative earth fault, which further raises the battery's temperature, which provokes a feedback loop of overheating that often as not ends in battery destruction.
It could be evidence of a structural problem with the battery, or of inadequate cooling, or of excessive demands being placed on it. But as this isn't happening with the Caterhams, and being as Adrian Newey has a history of "short-changing" the batteries' cooling needs, I suspect it is a combination of both of the latter. But Renault claims the will have the problem fixed by tomorrow. Which might mean the batteries will be modified to Caterham's detriment (because RBR are the 800-lb gorilla of the Renault camp).
If you're looking for logic in the 2014 engine formula, I am afraid you are on a fool's errand. Because it has nothing to do with competition, or improving the show. Rather it is an act of contrition, the sport evincing its discipleship to The New Green Religion.
I think that to their minds, it is a "proof of concept" with too much riding on it to risk failure. Else they collectively would look foolish, and run the risk of being excommunicated to boot (or at the very least forced to pay some exorbitant penance). Which is the chief reason the task of balancing the allocation of energy reserves (electrical vs petrol) has been removed from the driver's control. Because that singular task is the linchpin of the whole wretched scheme, and is too precarious a balancing act to leave the outcome subject to human error. And also why rules tweaks probably will be shortcoming. They will not let it fail, the sport be damned.
It could be evidence of a structural problem with the battery, or of inadequate cooling, or of excessive demands being placed on it. But as this isn't happening with the Caterhams, and being as Adrian Newey has a history of "short-changing" the batteries' cooling needs, I suspect it is a combination of both of the latter. But Renault claims the will have the problem fixed by tomorrow. Which might mean the batteries will be modified to Caterham's detriment (because RBR are the 800-lb gorilla of the Renault camp).
If you're looking for logic in the 2014 engine formula, I am afraid you are on a fool's errand. Because it has nothing to do with competition, or improving the show. Rather it is an act of contrition, the sport evincing its discipleship to The New Green Religion.
I think that to their minds, it is a "proof of concept" with too much riding on it to risk failure. Else they collectively would look foolish, and run the risk of being excommunicated to boot (or at the very least forced to pay some exorbitant penance). Which is the chief reason the task of balancing the allocation of energy reserves (electrical vs petrol) has been removed from the driver's control. Because that singular task is the linchpin of the whole wretched scheme, and is too precarious a balancing act to leave the outcome subject to human error. And also why rules tweaks probably will be shortcoming. They will not let it fail, the sport be damned.
Similar threads
- Article
- Article
