The Future Of F1

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Christian horner many years ago said something interesting a while ago . when talking about being the pinnacle of motorsport & either about 2014 or 2021 rules. albeit yes he has self interest in this. because they havent challenged for a world title since. he said something like are we entertainment or technolgy because if he carry on trying to chase being the pinnacle of motorsport & technology. we will get less relevant. because thats the LMP cars & Formula E

which is why i did change my mind on hybrids. just because car overtook horses didnt mean they stopped being used. same when battery or hydrogen overtakes the petrol engine
 

RasputinLives

Doesn't look a bit like Jesus
Contributor
What I'd really like to see is F1 give free reign on all tech. Electric cars Vs Hybrids Vs Petrol. I know the tech in electric cars isn't there yet but it will be. I think it would be fascinating to see the different forms of powered cars race each other and the different advantages and disadvantages that it would show up.

I think it's a pipe dream though.
 

Izumi

Banned
Narrow focus on technology alone is most likely not adequate when we are trying to forecast future of the sport. Generations now growing up, and trained on quantity of information delivered and absorbed in short span of time, honed by environmental concerns will influence their interest when leisure time kicks in. Brands and products just will fall in line. Sport sponsors and team owners will have not much choice, but to adapt. I am hesitant to support view there will be decades long interest in ICE. Those machines will have its usefulness for some time yet, however missing question in this discussion is, who will deliver them onto a racing track, and who will watch it? The same question can be rephrased, whether teams will be keen to please new clients, or those living on pension?
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
CaT - you may have struck on something there... Scrap the penalties and just blow the car up if you (potentially/maybe/possibly once) did something wrong. On second thoughts this is probably a backwards step. The 70's explored this concept pretty well. :(

FB - Sodium is also interesting because its both plentiful and, wouldn't be reliant on the appalling mining and refining we face with Lithium. Far easier to isolate, even if it does still rely on electricity consumption.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
What I'd really like to see is F1 give free reign on all tech. Electric cars Vs Hybrids Vs Petrol. I know the tech in electric cars isn't there yet but it will be. I think it would be fascinating to see the different forms of powered cars race each other and the different advantages and disadvantages that it would show up.

I think it's a pipe dream though.
Actually, I don't think it is. It is part of the reason I support a budget cap. With a budget cap in place, you can free up the technical regulations and allow people to develop, test and experiment as they please. Of course, they have to do so within their budget...but there used to be a lot of innovation in F1 long before there were $100 million budgets.
 

Izumi

Banned
Actually, I don't think it is. It is part of the reason I support a budget cap. With a budget cap in place, you can free up the technical regulations and allow people to develop, test and experiment as they please. Of course, they have to do so within their budget...but there used to be a lot of innovation in F1 long before there were $100 million budgets.
Who guaranteed all those nice things such as --free up technical regulations-- and whatever else you think budget will do for you. Budget, in my personal opinion, is a disaster in making for technology series. This is not NHL or similar where you do headcount and check payroll. F1 has to control (or have under control) probably, in my estimation, cost of close to 100,000 items for the whole series. (Good stuff for bookkeepers.) BTW, what will follow if your favorite team runs over budget in August? Who's that genius who knows at what limit budget should be set? Sorry Ruslan, but I think this will lead to greater standardization and series will resemble IRL pretty soon. Death of the F1.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Who guaranteed all those nice things such as --free up technical regulations-- and whatever else you think budget will do for you. Budget, in my personal opinion, is a disaster in making for technology series. This is not NHL or similar where you do headcount and check payroll. F1 has to control (or have under control) probably, in my estimation, cost of close to 100,000 items for the whole series. (Good stuff for bookkeepers.) BTW, what will follow if your favorite team runs over budget in August? Who's that genius who knows at what limit budget should be set? Sorry Ruslan, but I think this will lead to greater standardization and series will resemble IRL pretty soon. Death of the F1.
Well, we have argued this many times before...and have made no progress in changing either of our minds. Right now, I do not know how Liberty intends to execute the budget cap. I gather they are still talking about controlling certain items, standardized tech in a few cases, etc. I do not see the purpose of this.
 

Izumi

Banned
Well, we have argued this many times before...and have made no progress in changing either of our minds. Right now, I do not know how Liberty intends to execute the budget cap. I gather they are still talking about controlling certain items, standardized tech in a few cases, etc. I do not see the purpose of this.
Yes, we did and we are arguing the same issue without progress. My intent is not to drive anyone into insanity, however I am trying to understand your point of view. I can spend another hour listing treacherous watters with this move, yet I am still lacking understanding benefits. Who will benefit from such budgetary restrictions? I thought you should know since you are long standing proponent of such regulation. I am not even sure if I understand what effect you can expect. It cannot be greater competitiveness, I don't think that what is expected. I am not trying to be aggressive, but you have never - as I can recall - elaborated on vision how F1 would work with budget limits. I also do not know about anyone who agreed to relax technical regulation for set budget. Currently there is no such thing.

Not to be complete negative, yes, F1 could be less expensive, why not, life could be lived in modest home instead villa, but isn't such a decision in hands of teams and technical regulators? As expressed in the past, I repeat, if you build a space shuttle, you pay for space shuttle. If you want less expensive car, regulate series with simpler race cars through technical downgrade. Wouldn't that be an answer?
 
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Andyoak

Race Winner
All the teams, except Williams and McLaren, are too closely tied up with the manufacturer teams to complain when they negotiate a meaningless budget cap.

Liberty need the manufacturer teams and their minions to keep the show on the road.

All this talk of a new era is just farts in a gale. Meaningless wind.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Yes, we did and we are arguing the same issue without progress. My intent is not to drive anyone into insanity, however I am trying to understand your point of view. I can spend another hour listing treacherous watters with this move, yet I am still lacking understanding benefits. Who will benefit from such budgetary restrictions? I thought you should know since you are long standing proponent of such regulation. I am not even sure if I understand what effect you can expect. It cannot be greater competitiveness, I don't think that what is expected. I am not trying to be aggressive, but you have never - as I can recall - elaborated on vision how F1 would work with budget limits. I also do not know about anyone who agreed to relax technical regulation for set budget. Currently there is no such thing.

Not to be complete negative, yes, F1 could be less expensive, why not, life could be lived in modest home instead villa, but isn't such a decision in hands of teams and technical regulators? As expressed in the past, I repeat, if you build a space shuttle, you pay for space shuttle. If you want less expensive car, regulate series with simpler race cars through technical downgrade. Wouldn't that be an answer?
Well at this point the debate is academic as I gather they have worked something out that they have presented to the teams and it is going to be made public in a couple of months. I gather all teams have agreed although some reluctently (or more to point, I have not heard anyone threatening to quit over this recently). We shall see where we are at then.
 
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Izumi

Banned
Well at this point the debate is academic as I gather they have worked something out that they have presented to the teams and it is going to be made public in a couple of months. I gather all teams have agreed although some reluctently (or more to point, I have not heard anyone threatening to quit over this recently). We shall see where we are at then.
I do expect compromises and budget enforcement on some parts of racing, instead on whole enchilada, which will enable them to say, "we have tried".
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
I do expect compromises and budget enforcement on some parts of racing, instead on whole enchilada, which will enable them to say, "we have tried".
Well, supposedly the budget cap has been proposed and I gather has been begrudgedly accepted. There has been no details on it in the news that I have seen. But the entire rule package for 2021 should be resolved by June of this year (because they can't wait much longer).
 

Izumi

Banned
Fine; let's leave the subject of current push for restructuring of the F1, and return back to OT, where future takes us? Not too long ago I've read about automakers investing 250BB USD into electrics. Unfortunately I do not have timeline nor source for that information. I am merely impressed with size of that investment (assuming it's true). I think investors will want their money back either in full, or at least substantial amount of it. If we follow money, it's safe to speculate F1 hybrids live on borrowed time, methinks.
 
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Izumi

Banned
https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/12/susie-wolff-the-myth-and-magic-of-f1-is-its-unapologetic-elitism/

Susie Wolff wants to chime in. She may have a point or two. Her summary begs a question whether you could do the same on 100MM budget, while your frame of mind moves from glory of yesteryears to twenty-first century and leisure time run by millennials. She must be secretly following my rumblings...
Wolff continued, “F1 is most definitely not a level playing field but, most importantly, nor does it want to be. The myth and magic of F1 is its unapologetic elitism: it is the pinnacle of motorsport and teams have to be world class to be part of it.”
 
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Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Wolff continued, “F1 is most definitely not a level playing field but, most importantly, nor does it want to be. The myth and magic of F1 is its unapologetic elitism: it is the pinnacle of motorsport and teams have to be world class to be part of it.”
Says the wealthy and well-connected.
 

Izumi

Banned
From the woman who got to drive an F1 car based on what exactly??
The quote is of course hers, not mine. I have chosen this interview not on basis of hers accomplishments in F1, whatever those are, but on fact, that she is a wife of a leading team co-owner, a TP, a someone who is on the inside, and she probably knows more what's going on behind close doors, than most of us know on this forum. I assume carefully her rhetoric mirrors thinking of her husband, and listening to her is probably more informative than asked at the interview with Torger - hey Totto, while on TV, now tell us what you REALLY think about 100MM budgets.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Of course I know its her quote.

Toto will waffle on about Mercedes always promoting competitive racing and really, really wanting the cars to be able to overtake and all that good stuff. Then make sure that this is as unlikely as possible to happen.

The turkeys would never vote for Christmas as the saying goes.
 
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