The car or the driver?

[RasputinLives]

None of us are blind to Red Bull's boy being Vettel but until you reveal who you 'reliable source' is I'm afraid you just come across as a bit of a 'hater'

Do you know how many times I heard someone make a claim on the internet and say its come from a reliable source?

 

[Slyboogy]

Narain Karthikeyan is on the grid because he is one of the best talents on the grid.

Came from a reliable source .

Like that Rasp?

 

[Kewee]

RasputinLives.......

I can assure you I'm not a Vettel hater but will make a fairly telling point. In 2010 Vettel and Webber were at one another tooth and nail. Webber built his reputation as a brilliant qualifier and was a match for Vettel for a large part of the season, and as we all know very nearly took the Championship, yet in 2011 couldn't get close to Vettel in qualifying or the race, in cars that we are expected to believe were equal. You may believe they were given equal opportunity, I don't. That should tell you far more than me disclosing my source.
Regarding my source. There's such a thing as respecting someone who has told you something in confidence. If I didn't I wouldn't have many friends. I can give you an example of how I receive information without abusing that respect by not mentioning names, you can decide whether the source is reliable. One of the European car importers in my part of the world has a nephew who, several years ago, worked directly alongside the then current World Champion right through several seasons. He was not well known here and not a big mouth, just a decent young man who was very interesting to talk to when he came home occasionally for the off season break. Things he spoke about hadn't passed through a lengthy chain of people, in fact it's fair to say listening to him was about as close as you could get to the horses mouth, so to speak. You can decide for yourself whether information from someone that close to one of the drivers is reliable. I believe it is. I'm not prepared to say anything about my current source, only to say he's every bit as reliable.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee - firstly no one is ever denying that Vettel is the prefered son at Red Bull - thats not what the argument was at all - my argument was against this statement:

In the case of Vettel, he received every upgrade one race sooner than Webber so always had that advantage. Red Bull would deny that, there are insiders who know otherwise.

and I'm sorry i just don't believe that. As I've said to many people I've had discussions with on here regarding it (see the whole "Vettel's magic button" argument) yes Red Bull want Vettel to win over Webber no question but its also just as important to them to win the constructors championship due to the funds and glory this brings in so in light of this fact they would not handicap one of their own cars just in order for their favoured son to win the Grand Prixs - especially when their are so many other different ways of getting Vettel in front of Webber without handicapping Mark against their other rivals(as they did via strategy in 2010) - on top of which the plain fact is that in 2011 Red Bull didn't need to help Vettel get in front of Webber - there was on occasion in the whole season where Mark challenged Seb which was at GB and they ordered him to stay behind him. So sorry the idea that Vettel secretly gets all the updates a race before Mark is silly - if there was only one new nose or one new part then yes I'm sure he'd get the preference on it but we hear about that when it happens.

As for your source - I'd like to think you're not making up this nephew and that you are passing on information from a real source but once again do you know how many times I've heard on the internet someone say they can;t reveal their source but its someones brother's uncles' cousin who was there at the time? Now I'm not suggesting your trying to stir things up like the guy on 606 he suggesting he had absolute evidence that Martin Whitmarsh tried to sack Lewis Hamilton from the Mclaren young drivers programme because he didn't like him but I'm afraid I'll have to go with the evidence I've actual seen for myself and the logical conclusion.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee - firstly no one is ever denying that Vettel is the prefered son at Red Bull - thats not what the argument was at all - my argument was against this statement:



and I'm sorry i just don't believe that. As I've said to many people I've had discussions with on here regarding it (see the whole "Vettel's magic button" argument) yes Red Bull want Vettel to win over Webber no question but its also just as important to them to win the constructors championship due to the funds and glory this brings in so in light of this fact they would not handicap one of their own cars just in order for their favoured son to win the Grand Prixs - especially when their are so many other different ways of getting Vettel in front of Webber without handicapping Mark against their other rivals(as they did via strategy in 2010) - on top of which the plain fact is that in 2011 Red Bull didn't need to help Vettel get in front of Webber - there was on occasion in the whole season where Mark challenged Seb which was at GB and they ordered him to stay behind him. So sorry the idea that Vettel secretly gets all the updates a race before Mark is silly - if there was only one new nose or one new part then yes I'm sure he'd get the preference on it but we hear about that when it happens.

As for your source - I'd like to think you're not making up this nephew and that you are passing on information from a real source but once again do you know how many times I've heard on the internet someone say they can;t reveal their source but its someones brother's uncles' cousin who was there at the time? Now I'm not suggesting your trying to stir things up like the guy on 606 he suggesting he had absolute evidence that Martin Whitmarsh tried to sack Lewis Hamilton from the Mclaren young drivers programme because he didn't like him but I'm afraid I'll have to go with the evidence I've actual seen for myself and the logical conclusion.

Rasputin.......no I'm not making up the nephew or anything else but I still respect peoples confidence. I'm no different than many in New Zealand that have been involved in motorsport. Pitlane in F1 has had more than its share of Kiwi's for years and still has, and information that finds its way back to NZ comes by a very direct route. Most of us are astute enough to know when we're hearing fantasy, but this is very different and the person concerned is far more closely linked at a personal level. I could list things that happened last year that never made the news, and the GP's they occurred at, but I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be clever, I'm just respecting someone who confided in me. Whether you believe me is irrelevant, but doesn't make what I'm saying less true. This is one source who can be trusted, totally.

 

[RasputinLives]

Rasputin.......no I'm not making up the nephew or anything else but I still respect peoples confidence. I'm no different than many in New Zealand that have been involved in motorsport. Pitlane in F1 has had more than its share of Kiwi's for years and still has, and information that finds its way back to NZ comes by a very direct route. Most of us are astute enough to know when we're hearing fantasy, but this is very different and the person concerned is far more closely linked at a personal level. I could list things that happened last year that never made the news, and the GP's they occurred at, but I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be clever, I'm just respecting someone who confided in me. Whether you believe me is irrelevant, but doesn't make what I'm saying less true. This is one source who can be trusted, totally.

But you understand that without any evidence I can't just take your word an accusation like that is true right? Your contact might be very well trusted and I understand why your not naming names but if you don't you can't just wave it around as fact an expect everyone to believe it right?

As for the Kiwi link - I'm not sure why that is relevent as a resident of the UK where 6 of the 12 teams are actually based and can name at least 3 people I know who are directly involved with the F1 teams - not to mention the people on this site who don't boast about it but who you can kinda of guess are involved in the industry. Having spent some time in New Zealand I realise you guys are very proud of where you are from - I can't see how its relevent in this current conversation.

To conclude matters for the reason I explained in my previous post I do not believe that Vettel gets all the updates one race before Webber and it would not matter if you, AJ Hackett or Edward Hillaray told me any different I would not believe it unless I heard it from that guy from the West Island, Mark Webber himself.

Sorry.

 

[teabagyokel]

OK, guys thanks for that. I think we can conclude that Kewee claims to have a reliable source but that can neither be proved or disproved without compromising the guy, and RasputinLives has taken the reasonable step of not believing internet hearsay from someone he doesn't know. I don't think anyone has done anything wrong in this scenario, but Kewee is not going to convince RasputinLives without disrespecting his source, so I think it is time to end this particular discussion.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I wasn't sure where to put this but I read a really interesting article today and thought that the contents could be applied to F1 drivers.

Your thoughts?

http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/5-toxic-beliefs-that-ruin-careers.html