Football The 2010 Football World Cup Thread

[Brogan]

I think most England fans look at the draw, do the maths and work out which of the worlds big four would knock us out in the Quarters.

And yet you berate me for saying England aren't that good?

I'm struggling to see the difference between my statement and yours...

If most fans expect the team to lose, why the criticism when they do?
And why the hype before hand if they expect not to win?

Seems like a strange way of managing expectations to me.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I think most England fans look at the draw, do the maths and work out which of the worlds big four would knock us out in the Quarters.

And yet you berate me for saying England aren't that good?

I'm struggling to see the difference between my statement and yours...

A fair point however, given their position in the world rankings, you would expect countries ranked in the top 8 to reach the QFs. England's pre tournament ranking was 8th and they were one of the 8 seeded teams in the world cup which meant that they would avoid any of the bigger teams should they get through their group until the Quarter Finals (depending on results of course).

England reached the Quarter final stages or better in the following years, 56,62,66,70,86,90,02 and 06 and made it out of the group stages in 82 and 98 so I would say it's pretty reasonable for most England fans to assume that making it to the Quarter Finals before being knocked out, is the most likely out come.

 

[Brogan]

Meanwhile it's all kicked off in the Brazil match

A red card for Kaka for what was a stupid off the ball incident.

He may even miss the next few matches.

Ironically, the Ivory Coast player implied he had been hit in the face, just as I posted about earlier in my mini rant

 

[cider_and_toast]

Yeah, Big mistake by the Ref though. The Ivory Coast player hardly got touched. More cheating of the type (and I agree whole heartedly with that part of your post) that you were talking about.

 

[Speshal]

Yeah, Big mistake by the Ref though. The Ivory Coast player hardly got touched. More cheating of the type (and I agree whole heartedly with that part of your post) that you were talking about.

"Oh my face, my faaaaaaaaaaaaaaace"

Grow a pair chap, you just got nudged in the midriff

 

[cider_and_toast]

Spesh,

Superb.

 

[Brogan]

Just about sums up football for me that Spesh.

Just watched the double hand ball during the Brazilian second goal.

Quality bit of cheating there along with some more poor refereeing

 

[Brogan]

So according to the schedule there are just 2 matches left in Group C.

Can someone list the options for England going through?

Will just a win do it or does it depend on the USA v Algeria match?

 

[Matthew Little]

So according to the schedule there are just 2 matches left in Group C.

Can someone list the options for England going through?

Will just a win do it or does it depend on the USA v Algeria match?

10am, 23 June 2010: Slovenia vs. England
10am, 23 June 2010: United States vs. Algeria

England advances if they either.............
----Win agst, Slovenia and the U.S. loses agst. Algeria(England & Slovenia advance to knockout rounds)
----If both teams win, both England and the U.S. advances(England & the U.S. would have 5 pts. each vs. Slovenia w/4 pts.)
----England draws agst. Slovenia and the U.S. loses agst. Algeria(England would have 3 pts. to America's 2pts)
----If both England and the U.S. come out of Wednesday's games w/same number of points, England advances w/a higher goal differential than the U.S.

 

[Brogan]

I'm not so sure you know Matthew.
Looking at the FIFA site, they have the US in 2nd place, presumably because they have scored more goals than England?

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/standings/index.html

In which case, if both teams get the same result then it will be the US who go through?

Now I'm not familiar with how the scoring, etc. works but if it's 3 points for a win and 1 point for a draw then I make it like this:

England	USA	Advances

Win	Win	England, USA

Win	Draw	England

Win	Lose	England

Draw	Win	USA

Draw	Draw	USA (depends on goals scored?)

Draw	Lose	Neither

Lose	Win	USA

Lose	Draw	USA

Lose	Lose	Neither

In which case only a win will suffice for England whereas the USA can get through with a draw (assuming England doesn't win)?

Is that right?
If so then England's fate is in their own hands.

 

[Galahad]

Bro - you have it right. If teams are level on points it's decided by (1) goal difference (goals scored minus goals conceded) then by (2) goals scored. In the event of both teams drawing, England would need a high-scoring draw to overcome the USA for second position in the group.

Incidentally, re the Kaka incident, yes Keita's behaviour was disgraceful, and yes the referee was an idiot for ruling on something that he hadn't seen. But isn't an elbow in the ribs a yellow card offence? He was only given a second yellow, not a straight red card, after all?

I may be on my own on that one though.

 

[Brogan]

I agree G.

The face clutching was cheating but Kaka did deserve a yellow card for the push/hit (whatever it was) so ultimately the second yellow card and the subsequent red card was the correct decision.

 

[Muddytalker]

So according to the schedule there are just 2 matches left in Group C.

Can someone list the options for England going through?

Will just a win do it or does it depend on the USA v Algeria match?

10am, 23 June 2010: Slovenia vs. England
10am, 23 June 2010: United States vs. Algeria

England advances if they either.............
----Win agst, Slovenia and the U.S. loses agst. Algeria(England & Slovenia advance to knockout rounds)
----If both teams win, both England and the U.S. advances(England & the U.S. would have 5 pts. each vs. Slovenia w/4 pts.)
----England draws agst. Slovenia and the U.S. loses agst. Algeria(England would have 3 pts. to America's 2pts)
----If both England and the U.S. come out of Wednesday's games w/same number of points, England advances w/a higher goal differential than the U.S.

Afraid not, on these last two. If England draw and Algeria win, they would have 4 points to our 3.
If both England and the USA draw, we would need a draw scoring 3 or more goals than the USA (since USA have a 1-1, 2-2, England have 1-1, 0-0 so far). This is because if 2 teams are level on points it goes to goal difference (both on 0 with 3 draws) then goals scored, which currently has the USA on 3 to our 1. If this is also level (i.e. USA 0-0, England 2-2), it goes to drawing lots!

 

[FB]

Many thanks to the ref in the last England game for booking Jamie "donkey" Carragher as Matthew Upson will now partner John Terry in the centre of defence against Solvenia. There will also be a German ref, not sure if that's good or bad...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8751502.stm

 

[cider_and_toast]

According to Sky Sports news its the same Ref who was in charge for the Arsenal V Barcelona Champions League game that Arsenal lost 4-1 and he was also the Ref for a Chelsea Champions League game when he sent Drogba off. If that makes any difference?

If England play like they did on Friday I think Cocoa the Clown could referee the game and it still wouldn't make any difference. In rough figures, I worked out today that Wayne Rooney earns more in 1 hour than I earn in 1 week.

I represent my country at War and we haven't lost on home soil since 1066 so how come I don't get paid 90000 a week?

 

[Brogan]

I represent my country at War and we haven't lost on home soil since 1066 so how come I don't get paid 90000 a week?

 

[FB]

Can we draw a distinction between "earns" and "get's paid". I can't think of any professional sports man or woman who "earns" a brass bean but they all seem to "get paid" quite a lot (much from the National Lottery which was supposed to be to support good causes. Grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter) .

Some 14 year old stitching footballs in an Asian sweat shop earns every penny they get paid...

 

[Bullfrog]

I agree G.

The face clutching was cheating but Kaka did deserve a yellow card for the push/hit (whatever it was) so ultimately the second yellow card and the subsequent red card was the correct decision.

Got to disagree with this, he made no move with either of his arms, he didn't make a move towards the other player at all. Keita pretty much ran into him (very slowly), Kaka did nothing to get out of the way but why should he? It was a nothing incident made worse by the most cynical piece of gamesmanship you're likely to see and a terrible refereeing decision.

Kaka was completely innocent.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Can we draw a distinction between "earns" and "get's paid". I can't think of any professional sports man or woman who "earns" a brass bean but they all seem to "get paid" quite a lot (much from the National Lottery which was supposed to be to support good causes. Grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter) .

Some 14 year old stitching footballs in an Asian sweat shop earns every penny they get paid...

Got agree with you there FB.

 

[Bullfrog]

Can we draw a distinction between "earns" and "get's paid". I can't think of any professional sports man or woman who "earns" a brass bean but they all seem to "get paid" quite a lot (much from the National Lottery which was supposed to be to support good causes. Grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter) .

Some 14 year old stitching footballs in an Asian sweat shop earns every penny they get paid...

Can we also make a distinction between "was offered" and "demanded". Wages remain as high as the market can bear, there's a lot of hypocritical condemnation of sporting bods who get paid a lot of money as I doubt that very many people have refused a wage rise or ever asked for less money than they currently get. I appreciate it's on a different scale but there are relevant comparisons to be drawn. Particularly relevant is the issue of performance, given that it's pretty much impossible to sack anyone these days merely for not being terribly good at their job.