But that was on the live feed. And they actually did it, observably! It wasn't released a week later, apparently so the sport could illegally bring itself into disrepute...?
Team Radio & Bringing the sport in disrepute
- Thread starter no-FIAt-please
- Start date
But that was on the live feed. And they actually did it, observably! It wasn't released a week later, apparently so the sport could illegally bring itself into disrepute...?
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Erm, I think the disrepute here is caused not just by the words but by the actions throughout the whole episode
From the tangle in quali
To the instructions to destroy spoil and hinder
To the attack afterwards in public on Lewis
To the call for a meeting etc
The whole story is obviously not doing well for the image or spirit of the sport
Just like Hockenheim 2010
I thought your point was that it wouldn't have been on the official F1 race edit if it brought the sport into disrepute.
The Germany 2010 radio call did and Ferrari were found in breach of the rules and fined, so that nullifies your point.
The point is that the "FIFTY" was on the Live Feed, it was not released a week later at Bernie's instigation, as the Massa comments were.
What, that these so called racers are in competition?
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Ah, the old 'race edit is immorality proof' argument
I refer you to Bro's counter
My question remains unanswered
In light of the quali tangle, and Massas actions afterwards, how can the instruction to 'destroy his race' remain unlikely to drag the sport into disrepute?
Encouraging a driver to gain revenge on track is not catered for in the spirit of F1, nor is Massas action after the race
In the wider context, the instructions stink
So who can explain how this has not brought disrepute?
Josh
Champion Elect
Okay I'll bite:
I think Massa should have handled the situation after the race differently but I don't believe you can connect the radio message with his actions afterwards. They're two completely different events and I really think you are as much guilty of a witchhunt right now as (you believe) almost the entire world of F1 is hunting for Lewis.
I also think the radio message isn't such a big deal as everyone is making it out to be, sure Smedley's choice of words could have been better but I honestly think the essence of the message is just as bad as the radio messages which go out every once in a while saying "driver A is on this strategy, do this or that and you will ruin his strategy".
By which I of course mean to say I couldn't care less and it's just a part of racing.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Josh
If Massa is trying to drive in a manner not conducive to driving as fast as he can to finish as well as he can, then it is no longer a clear cut heinous crime for a driver already penalised for mis reading an overtake
To carry on afterwards in full view of the press and then call for a meeting to investigate the bravado of the driver is bringing disrepute of the sport IMHO
You don't care fair enough, McLaren should, Ferrari would
You said Massa went about it the wrong way
We agree
If Massa is trying to drive in a manner not conducive to driving as fast as he can to finish as well as he can, then it is no longer a clear cut heinous crime for a driver already penalised for mis reading an overtake
To carry on afterwards in full view of the press and then call for a meeting to investigate the bravado of the driver is bringing disrepute of the sport IMHO
You don't care fair enough, McLaren should, Ferrari would
You said Massa went about it the wrong way
We agree
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
Think this thread should be ended, it seems to keep just going round in circles. Plus this Singapore gp is long gone now, bring on Suzuka is all i can say 
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Think this thread should be ended, it seems to keep just going round in circles. Plus this Singapore gp is long gone now, bring on Suzuka is all i can say
This story is going to run and develop right up to Japan. There will be more to discuss. A simple reminder to people to know when they've said their piece should suffice.
Josh
Champion Elect
I think both Smedley and Massa knew perfectly well that Lewis was faster than them and that by simply keeping him behind while driving as fast as he could (which was slower than Hamilton) they could ruin Hamilton's race while ensuring a good finishing position, possibly in front of Lewis.
That Lewis then locked up and slid into him is not Massa's fault.
The only thing I think Massa did wrong was sarcastically congratulating Lewis in front of the camera's. I believe he should have talked to Hamilton in private so none of this would have happened.
The meeting is pointless and a farce but that really has nothing to do with this topic, if you want to discuss that you should go to Hamilton's thread.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Barring new developments I have nothing more to say about this
Bullet190
Points Scorer
It could be argued that this whole episode comes under the heading.......'Team Orders'.
Is this something I am happy to see in the sport of F1........No.
I want to see driver's trying to get as high a position as they possibly can, I don't want to see a driver pull over for another driver and I don't want to see a driver hold up another driver. Yes it's a team sport, I understand that but it's also a race and ALL drivers should be racing or at least trying to race. The team will then win by either having the best cars or the best drivers or both.
Rewind back to the last race in 2010 in Abu Dhabi, how would people feel if Petrov was told to destroy Alonso's race and therefore destroy his championship hopes ? When a world champion is crowned like Vettel, I want him to have achieved that by being the best driver, not by his mates in the paddock helping him out.
If 'hold him up, destroy his race' is ok then where draw the line ? How about deliberately crashing to bring the safety car out ? Parking mid corner during the last minutes of qualifying ? Deliberately turning in on someone when you know it will end in a crash ? Brake testing an opponent mid corner ? The list is endless.
If Massa was told to stay ahead of Hamilton I would have no problem with that. I would however find this strange as that is after all Massa job ! He may as well be told 'there is a left turn coming up, brake and turn left !' Massa was not told to stay ahead though was he, he was told to effectively slow his opponent down for the benefit of others.
Some here are happy with team orders and that's fine, they are entitled to there opinion, personally though I feel it is the dark side of the sport that I would rather not see.
Is this something I am happy to see in the sport of F1........No.
I want to see driver's trying to get as high a position as they possibly can, I don't want to see a driver pull over for another driver and I don't want to see a driver hold up another driver. Yes it's a team sport, I understand that but it's also a race and ALL drivers should be racing or at least trying to race. The team will then win by either having the best cars or the best drivers or both.
Rewind back to the last race in 2010 in Abu Dhabi, how would people feel if Petrov was told to destroy Alonso's race and therefore destroy his championship hopes ? When a world champion is crowned like Vettel, I want him to have achieved that by being the best driver, not by his mates in the paddock helping him out.
If 'hold him up, destroy his race' is ok then where draw the line ? How about deliberately crashing to bring the safety car out ? Parking mid corner during the last minutes of qualifying ? Deliberately turning in on someone when you know it will end in a crash ? Brake testing an opponent mid corner ? The list is endless.
If Massa was told to stay ahead of Hamilton I would have no problem with that. I would however find this strange as that is after all Massa job ! He may as well be told 'there is a left turn coming up, brake and turn left !' Massa was not told to stay ahead though was he, he was told to effectively slow his opponent down for the benefit of others.
Some here are happy with team orders and that's fine, they are entitled to there opinion, personally though I feel it is the dark side of the sport that I would rather not see.
It doesn't matter if VP was told to ruin Alonso's race, the fact is he did ruin Alonso's race.
...and not only has the tablecloth been stained, but now the underlying varnish has been tarnished! 
...There are further reports of serious twisting of knickers and bunching of panties occurring, and a tornado of handbags brewing somewhere in the countryside...unconfirmed sightings of wasps' nests being poked with sticks and cans of worms being heedlessly kicked over...
...There are further reports of serious twisting of knickers and bunching of panties occurring, and a tornado of handbags brewing somewhere in the countryside...unconfirmed sightings of wasps' nests being poked with sticks and cans of worms being heedlessly kicked over...
Been away for a while so I've only caught bits and pieces of this story.
I'm sure somebody must have mentioned this somewhere in the thread, but I'll just throw my 2 cents in anyway. It shouldn't be a surprise that Ferrari will willingly sacrifice one car to benefit the other, and I can accept that. What I have a problem with is that FOM continually refuse to play extremely pertinent bits of team radio (and even onboard video).
The thought that they had a radio message telling Felipe to "destroy" Lewis' race and that we wouldn't hear this transmission after the collision is rather disturbing.
Same goes for Massa's collision at Monza. It was never shown during the broadcast even though there was a "slo-mo investigation" going on behind the scenes.
I'm sure somebody must have mentioned this somewhere in the thread, but I'll just throw my 2 cents in anyway. It shouldn't be a surprise that Ferrari will willingly sacrifice one car to benefit the other, and I can accept that. What I have a problem with is that FOM continually refuse to play extremely pertinent bits of team radio (and even onboard video).
The thought that they had a radio message telling Felipe to "destroy" Lewis' race and that we wouldn't hear this transmission after the collision is rather disturbing.
Same goes for Massa's collision at Monza. It was never shown during the broadcast even though there was a "slo-mo investigation" going on behind the scenes.
Josephiah
Podium Finisher
Glad this one seems to be calming down a little...
Ferrari have their say here (via Autosport): the message went out on lap 11 before Massa and Hamilton went into the pits, making it much more plausible that the unfortunate 'destroy' word was being applied to the race strategy.
Irresponsible perhaps for FOM to alter the timing to make it appear more malicious, but then surely fanning the flames of media interest is a large part of their job remit. A wee conflict is always good for publicity!
Ferrari have their say here (via Autosport): the message went out on lap 11 before Massa and Hamilton went into the pits, making it much more plausible that the unfortunate 'destroy' word was being applied to the race strategy.
Irresponsible perhaps for FOM to alter the timing to make it appear more malicious, but then surely fanning the flames of media interest is a large part of their job remit. A wee conflict is always good for publicity!
The collision was on the out-lap after the pits and so you say the message was on the in-lap before the pits. I don't see how this changes anything in the slightest.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
ExtremeNinja....
I don't think anyone (Other than a very few conspiracy theorists) would suggest that the collision was either a) Massa's fault, or b) malicious by Massa. As such, this arguement is moot!
How could I have missed the distinctive crinkling noise of the "Thin-Gauge Aluminium Millinery Brigade" forming up??
...must have been the roaring noise of the whirling handbags...
...must have been the roaring noise of the whirling handbags...
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